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HUMPHRYS: It's six months since
MPs debated a new law which would cut incapacity benefits for people making
a fresh claim. Many Labour MPs do not approve; there was the biggest revolt
against the government of this parliament. This week the Lords get their
turn and they are likely to throw it back to the Commons. Not a happy
prospect for the Social Security secretary Alastair Darling. What will
he do? Compromise... or confront them? Sarah Nelson's been trying to
find out.
SARAH NELSON: Adam Thomas is getting ready
for work. He considers himself lucky to have a job. He had an accident
in his teens and has been a wheelchair user ever since. Many disabled
people find it hard to get any job, let alone a good full-time one, and
now the Government is putting forward proposals which Adam believes, make
work less attractive. Ministers want to cut payments to people who have
to give up their jobs through disability. It's an issue that's already
led to the biggest back bench revolt at Westminster under this Government
and it could be about to result in another.
Campaigners like Adam
see the events of the next week as crucial. Ministers so far are refusing
to compromise on plans to cut help to disabled people. But a vote in the
House of Lords on Wednesday, is expected to show opposition to the proposal
is stronger than ever.
BARONESS HOLLIS: We believe that it is right that
when we are spending two billion pounds more on disabled people, and I
am delighted that we are, that it should go to those who need it, not to
those who don't.
LORD ASHLEY: The Government only has a
few weeks to get this Bill through. There is a danger the Government will
lose this Bill. I don't want that, nobody wants them to lose the Bill,
but that's the danger.
ROGER BERRY MP: The vast majority of us
just want the Government to show an ability to compromise, to listen to
what disabled people have said, and then hopefully we can all unite behind
the Welfare Reform Bill, I very much hope we can.
NELSON: A good salary and a nice
car - but Adam's success now is relatively recent. He has always been
keen to work full-time, but it's only in the last couple of years that
that's been possible.
ADAM THOMAS: I am doing basically what
Tony Blair has asked, I've gone out, I've found a job, for the first time
since 1981 I have actually found an employer who will employ me on PAYE.
NELSON: Adam's prospects are very
good. With his employer he set up a business designing and making accessible
kitchens for disabled people and enquiries have come in from around the
world. But his health is always a concern and Government plans to limit
Incapacity Benefit could eventually leave him worse off if he loses his
job. Rather than paying the same sum to all claimants, Ministers want
to cut Incapacity Benefit for those who have a pension of more than fifty
pounds a week.
THOMAS: I really don't see the
logic of it. National Insurance was set up as a safety net for people
who, if they fall on hard times, they need help, it's there. I've done
what has been asked, I've provided a pension, I'm actually paying
a hundred and fifty pounds a month of money that I can't really afford,
or money that I would much rather spend on other things, but I have decided
to look after my future. If this rule comes in, then basically what I
will personally do is I will cancel my pension, I'll just put it on hold,
because I don't see why I should be penalised this way.
NELSON: The last thing Ministers
say they want is to stop Adam from saving for his future. Many of their
policies for disabled people aim to encourage their independence, not limit
it. But the changes go further, Ministers plan to link Incapacity Benefit
more closely to work by only allowing those who have paid National Insurance
for at least a year in the two years before they claim to qualify. The
Government says this way limited state funds are targeted at those recently
in work.
HOLLIS: Originally, Incapacity
Benefit was designed to replace earnings for those who fell out of work
because of illness and had no other income and what has happened is too
often it's become a top-up to an early retirement pension of good white-collar
professional pensions and that was not the point, and it means as a result
money isn't going to those who really need it.
NELSON: At Westminster, Jack Ashley
is considering his tactics. He's told fellow critic, the MP Roger Berry,
he's tabling two amendments in Wednesday's debate. One would pay benefit
to people who claim within seven years of leaving work, not two, the other
more than doubles the pension allowed before the benefit is cut.
ASHLEY: I am a political realist
and the Government with it's vast majority and a democratic House of Commons
will eventually get its Bill. And because of that I am trying to bridge
the gap between the Government and disabled people. It's an honourable,
reasoned, logical provision and the Government if they are sensible should
grasp it with both hands.
LORNA REITH: We feel that Lord Ashley's
amendments really are the bottom line position in terms of compromise.
We disagree fundamentally with what the Government are trying to do.
They are going to be reducing the incomes of three-hundred-and-fifty-thousand
people over the next ten years. That's not something we ever want to see
a Labour or any other Government doing.
HOLLIS: Jack's amendment will still
produce Incapacity Benefit for those who have very high incomes and we
don't believe that is the right priority or the right principle.
NELSON: Not much sign of a compromise
there then. Adam will have to wait until the issue returns to the House
of Commons for any concessions. The rebels have designs on MP's who abstained
or who voted with the Government reluctantly. Over the summer, some Commons
Backbenchers have come under pressure from their constituencies to reconsider
their support.
JOE BENTON, MP: If the Government in its
wisdom says no, we are not going to have it, I will have to examine my
position. But I would hope, I would seriously hope that they will listen
and concede to the two amendments.
TONY McWALTER, MP: I don't believe this is a Government
which is seeking a head-on collision with eighty-two of its backbenchers
and I think that they realise that this Bill is immensely complex, it has
a thousand implications and they got nine-hundred-and-ninety-six of them
right. I don't think there is any mileage in not admitting that, four
of them might need adjusting.
NELSON: At the moment there's a
stand-off. Neither the Government, nor its critics want to make the first
move. Backbenchers want concessions but the Government appears to want
to assess the scale of any revolt before making a compromise. So Ministers
will almost certainly wait until after the House of Lords debate on Wednesday
before making a new offer.
Discussions are likely
to focus on raising the level of pension a claimant can have before their
Incapacity Benefit starts being reduced. Currently it stands at fifty
pounds a week and backbenchers want a substantial increase.
BERRY: If they are simply going
to increase the threshold for means-tested Incapacity Benefit from fifty
pounds per week to sixty pounds per week I have to say I cannot conceive
how I can support that, I mean that's just not an attempt to compromise.
McWALTER: I expect them to make
the appropriate adjustments, not some kind of minimal adjustments. I mean
if they increase the fifty pound limit to fifty-five, nobody will be convinced
that that was a sensible response to the powerful arguments which have
been made.
HOLLIS: The Secretary of State,
Alastair Darling, made it very clear early last summer that the precise
figures are not set in tablets of stone. He is willing to listen to people,
he has listened to people, he has consulted with people, and as a result
he is reflecting on this and will make a statement to Parliament.
NELSON: There are more than eight
million disabled people in Britain and they have already shown they know
how to embarrass this Government. There will be no climb-down on Incapacity
Benefit in the House of Lords this week, but the whiff of compromise is
in the air. Campaigners and MP's will be examining what's put forward
very closely. Ministers will have to convince them it's a fair deal to
avoid further rows.
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