BBC On The Record - Broadcast: 14.11.99

NB. This transcript was typed from a transcription unit recording and not copied from an original script. Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy.

Film: Film on next week's Queen's Speech.

 
 


MUSIC TONY BLAIR: A new Britain, liberated from the forces of Conservatism and arrayed against us, the cynics, the elite, the establishment, those who will live with decline, those who yearn for yesteryear...... SARAH NELSON: At the Royal Armouries in Leeds they're used to fighting historic battles but it will take all the Prime Minister's skill to defeat the forces of Conservatism. He's identified these forces as the brake on Britain's progress in the next century, and he's pledged to tackle them. The first opportunity to judge how Tony Blair is taking on the forces of Conservatism comes this week in the Queen's speech. It's easy to talk tough, but the real test is whether ministers will water down some of their more radical policies when the forces of opposition start to flex their muscles. For centuries Britain's aristocracy has enjoyed great privilege. Now this force of Conservatism is being confronted. While they can't be denied their history they can be denied their seat in the Lords. EARL OF ONSLOW: We were made barons in 1719 and then we were made earls in 1801 because Pitt wanted the Act of Union passed and we wanted to be earls so it was a very simple bargain came about for no great merit. NELSON: The Earl of Onslow is about to write his thank you letters. He's one of seventy-five hereditary peers elected by their noble Lords to remain in a partially reformed Upper House. Instead of axing all the hereditaries, the Government compromised to avoid a rebellion, and that suits him just fine. ONSLOW: The answer is of course one has got slightly more legitimacy. Even though the electorate itself is arcane and odd, at least one's been elected by somebody which can't be said of Lady Jay or Lord Brighton of Bassam or whatever he's called. NELSON: On the Onslow estate life goes on. It appears Tony Blair may buckle when confronting the establishment. One test will be the Freedom of Information Bill. There are fears ministers are giving in to Conservative pressures within Whitehall to keep official documents covered up. ALAN MEALE MP: What will happen because of the pressure of the mandarins in particular will be to restrict that in a very major way so that that the general public will be able, should I say the chattering classes, and certainly the media will be able to get more access than they've had before but certainly not in the real sense of the word an open freedom of information act. NELSON: Time for walkies. The Earl of Onslow takes his dogs out for their morning run. An Englishman's home is his castle but his dogs and his car are high on the list of priorities too even though there isn't much congestion on such a large estate ONSLOW: Well it's only eight hundred acres but eight hundred acres is a jolly jolly nice lot to have anyway. NELSON: The car represents freedom for the Earl to travel where he likes when he likes. This isn't a class issue, rich and poor alike love their cars and would find it hard to live without them so woe betide the political party which takes them on. ONSLOW: If you clobber people too much for using their motor cars they will vote you out of office and the one thing politicians like, perfectly reasonably and very correctly, is being voted into office and therefore they will not do something which will vote them out of office. NELSON: There's likely to be a transport bill in the Queens speech to challenge such attitudes but even though the government says drivers are a force of conservatism they are still voters and they won't like being charged for causing congestion. Campaigners fear ministers won't risk sparking widespread anger. SECRET: We've already seen the government backtrack on some of its most important transport tax proposals because of a vociferous campaign run by special interests in the motoring trade. We need the government to stand up to that pressure and explain carefully and confidently why change has to occur, why communities all over the country will benefit from taming the car and the lorry and providing the alternatives. NELSON: Like many country folk, the Earl of Onslow enjoys field sports and so he feels it's wrong and contradictory to ban foxhunting. ONSLOW: It's not a moral argument is it, because Mr Blair has accepted it's perfectly reasonable to kill things for pleasure. He's that shooting is alright, so there's no question, it's not a moral argument it is wrong to do this even though some people say it is, because if it's wrong to do that then it's wrong to participate in any field sport and frankly I find that is a tenable argument with which I do not hold but to differentiate between one because they don't do it and because they think it's toffs makes me think it's intellectual idleness. NELSON: But it is 'toffs' isn't it? ONSLOW: No. NELSON: The Prime Minister himself has pledged to ban hunting with dogs this parliament but the government won't legislate. Instead a lone MP will have to do it, much harder even with ministers backing. MEALE: If the government you know are intent on changing the law on this particular you know aspect of life then they should really have the guts and determination to take it on as an issue. NELSON: So if the right is supporting Tony Blair will his attention turn elsewhere. The Prime Minister has identified other forces of conservatism too. Those on the left, even some of those who have been associated with the Labour Party for many years. So how far is he prepared to go in upsetting his own side in order to claim he is radically changing Britain? ANDY GIBBON: I'm a teacher, I work in a secondary school, I run an English department there and I'm now an elected councillor of the Labour Party. NELSON: Andy Gibbons is on his way home. He's another force of Conservatism according the government - A Labour activist and teacher since the mid Eighties, he says he wants change just not what the government is proposing. For him performance related pay will be the big issue this school year. Andy believes it's not modernising education it's a regressive step and one he had expected from the Tories but not from a Labour government. GIBBON: Performance related pay will strike at the heart of a lot of what teachers do because it will say to come teachers you are supposedly better than another teacher when it's not the case. What will happen I suspect is that it will be funding limited and therefore some people who deserve to be paid well will not be paid well simply because the funding is not there. DOUG MCAVOY: I think teachers are right to resist change, unless they are certain that the change is to the benefit of education and would be beneficial to pupils. They are not certain that performance related pay will be, indeed they believe that it will not be beneficial to pupils, so they are right to resist that change, and if by so doing they are described by the Prime Minister as forces of Conservatism then they should be proud to be part of the forces of Conservatism. NELSON: Andy's not the only public service worker to seek refuge from the government. Others are out of tune with ministers' thinking too. In Wednesday's Queens Speech, ministers are expected to announce dramatic changes to the probation service, just as they want teachers to toughen up, they want probation officers to do less touchy-feely social work and more law enforcement. HARRY FLETCHER: My fear is that as the government gets further and further into the rhetoric so that what we will see on the ground is a greater emphasis on what one can call retribution you know the old fashioned eye for an eye, offenders wearing uniforms and donkey jackets, greater emphasis on controls and surveillance, the wearing of electronic tags for everyone and so on. Now that would be fine if the government could produce evidence that it actually stopped re-offending and contributed to public protection but thus far there isn't any evidence that it does. NELSON: Nonetheless, on the streets of South London Andy's still doing his bit for the Labour party but he fears he's under threat here too from the government. Ministers want to introduce directly elected mayors to re-invigorate local democracy, they see councils as forces of conservatism. Andy's concerned at the prospect of a major new bill. GIBBON: I think it needs to look again at how the balance of power will be held under its new system. I think it needs to be very sensitive to what people are saying to it about those people who are already on the ground doing jobs as councillors, representing people. BEACHAM: It could over-personalise local politics, it could narrow the choice of local leadership and make elected mayors perhaps captives of those who support their nominating process. It could lead to gridlock and conflict between an elected mayor and the rest of the council, and in any case it doesn't deal with what many of us feel is the fundamental problem; the fact that the financial system of local government does not allow us to be accountable to our electorate and to have the freedom to act decisively on their behalf. NELSON: The Queen's Speech will help the government make a final mark before the general election. This years' theme is an attack on the forces of Conservatism but ministers are accused of being tougher on their own side than on those traditionally against them.