JOHN HUMPHRYS: Right okay, Stewart Francis, a very quick reaction from each of you before we close this discussion, are you happy with what you've heard, especially that last bit about investment STEWART FRANCIS: Let's just remember that the passenger is king. The fact is that Railtrack have been slow to invest, and Tom Windsor, the Rail Regulator is now putting the foot on Railtrack's accelerator. What we want is a bit of vision with this. When we had our passengers' conference on Thursday we were talking about the well-factor. Where are the big ideas? When I came down to this studio today I left Peterborough station which is a relatively new station, but it's built in the same style as the Victorian era. If we're going to get people out of cars then we have to replicate the car journey, the comfort. Why isn't that platform covered in glass? Now five - ten years ago we were talking about football supporters being talked about as being treated as animals. Look at the rail passengers' experience when they get onto a platform, open to the elements. Where's the vision that everybody has a seat when they arrive at the station, where are there a few shops around the station. Why can't stations be the centre of the community? HUMPHRYS: George Muir, where are they? GEORGE MUIR: I went to the conference, Stewart's conference on Thursday and it was because I want to hear as much as I can and get feedback from passengers. And the point they were making is vision. We want an encapsulation of the vision for the railways, and they're quite right. And fortunately we do have a document which is a good start for that vision, and a new version is going to come out in March, the network management statement, and this is a good statement of the totality of what we're trying to deliver in the railways of Britain. HUMPHRYS: Thank you. Gerald Corbett, a quick thought on what Lord MacDonald had to say about where you're investment's going to come from. Are you satisfied with what he said? GERALD CORBETT: Yes, broadly, but I mean within what he said it highlights the weakness, because we've got huge numbers dancing about, we actually do need a proper plan. If we were a separate business rather than a whole industry we would have a strategic plan, and that would be the framework within which we managed ourselves. We would know what we were trying to achieve, we'd know how we were going to raise the money and so on. We don't at the moment have that for the industry, and we badly need that. It's all very well us having our plan, but we've actually got to have one for the industry and how the money is going to be raised and how it's going to be spent, and until we've got that leadership we're not going to be able to make much progress. HUMPHRYS: Okay. John Redwood, you've heard what they've all said. You've got a motion down for MPs to discuss this week. Are you satisfied with everything that's been said. Are you going to withdraw that motion now.? JOHN REDWOOD: I'm not going to withdraw the motion. I think the conversation today has shown that there are a lot of common sense ideas that we proposed and that the industry has proposed that need to be adopted. But the complacency of the minister is breathtaking, and he even seems to agree with some of them, but they're not doing them. John Prescott has the powers today to solve these problems if he wished to do so. He is not making the necessary decisions. It was a great Labour lie they'd improve public transport. It's getting worse because he is dithering, he's not up to the job, and yes we are going to debate it. HUMPHRYS: Lord MacDonald? LORD MACDONALD: Well, in two years we've tried to undo some of the neglect of twenty years of Tory misrule. What we've got now is the first comprehensive Transport Bill for a generation, and we believe that that will give us the Strategic Rail Authority which will give us the strategic plan that the industry wants. HUMPHRYS: Gentlemen, thank you all very much indeed for coming here today and discussing this hugely important problem, and that is our contribution, On the Record's contribution to Track Record. But, the BBC's Rail Week continues on the Money Programme today. They'll be finding out why the Dutch run their rail system so much more efficiently than we run ours. That's the Money Programme at Eight o'clock on BBC-Two this evening.