BBC On The Record - Broadcast: 23.01.00

Film: Can the peace process survive the Ulster Unionists deadline for IRA decommissioning.



JONATHAN BEALE: August 1975 in South Armagh and an off duty member of the Ulster Defence Regiment is on his way home. WILLIAM FRAZER: The gunmen stood in behind the hedge, waiting for my father to come out. He was just leaving to go home. He had the same routine for the last thirty years. He got into the car and reversed out of the lane way. The two murdering gunmen came out through the hole in the hedge, they shot him through the window. They talk about the ceasefire. This was during the ceasefire. How can we trust these people? There's only one way we will have peace or hope in this country is whenever the IRA hand over their guns. At the minute, everything is appeasement, it's not a peace process, it's an appeasement process. BEALE: The Peace Process has reached another critical stage. But this time the stakes are much higher. The power sharing executive here at Stormont is finally up and running. Unionists, Republicans and Nationalists are working together in Government. But Ulster Unionists are now threatening to pull the plug. They say unless Republican terrorists start decommissioning their weapons by the end of this month, they'll effectively collapse the process. SIR REG EMPEY: The patience of the Unionist Community has reached absolutely breaking point and I have to say personally, and I can only speak personally, I personally have reached the end of my political tether with this. MITCHEL McLAUGHLIN MLA: Sinn Fein is present here in Stormont even though that's anathema to us, even the word gives us a pain in the gut. We're here because this is the place where we can get into political discourse with our political opponents. BEALE: It looked like victory, but last November David Trimble narrowly won the support of his party to enter into Government with Sinn Fein. The Ulster Unionist leader only got their backing after promising to review progress on arms decommissioning by February. He's even signed a letter of resignation as first Minister, to be used if the IRA fails to deliver. But Unionists say they were given assurances the IRA was ready to act. McLAUGHLIN: They got no such assurances from Sinn Fein. I cannot speak for anyone else who was present. Our view on it has been stated publicly and our public position is our private position, that it will be a voluntary process and it is a responsibility under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement for all of us to co-operate to create those political conditions that would render any reference to arms struggle redundant for the future. JEFFREY DONALDSON MP: David Trimble made it clear that he would resign as First Minister if there hadn't been credible decommissioning by the end of January, by the deadline which he has reiterated when he met the Prime Minister at Downing Street. BEALE: General John de Chastelain, who heads the independent body on decommissioning, has to report on progress by the end of the month. It will be the key to whether the political process continues and his interpretation of decommissioning is crucial. Particularly as Sinn Fein's definition seems vague. McLAUGHLIN: I think that decommissioning has been achieved in Republican terms in that the IRA are not using their weapons; that's decommissioning for Sinn Fein. It's not sufficient for some other people, so it's up to them to give you their definition and to demonstrate how they can come up with a workable solution. BEALE: In South Armagh, a Republican heartland once referred to as bandit country, there's little to suggest that terrorist weapons no longer pose a threat. The army is still here in force. So how long has this base been here? DECLAN FEARON: This one has been here fifteen years, going back to 1985/86 I think. BEALE: But local residents say the security services have failed to respond to the IRA's ceasefire. In their view it's the army's presence that's hindering progress. FEARON: We want to see them taken away immediately. You know there is no reason why all of this can't be taken away within weeks There are some thirty-three of these bases, or thirty-three look-out posts in this area including five massive military barracks. There's no reason why all of this paraphernalia can't be taken away within weeks. Some of them were built within weeks and they should be taken away as quickly. BEALE: The Government says it's already reduced the military's presence. Twenty-six installations have been closed or demolished. There are now fifteen thousand troops, fewer than at any time since 1970. For many Republicans that's still far too many. The Northern Ireland Secretary is expected to publish a review of security arrangements in a matter of weeks. But Peter Mandelson insists security will not be compromised nor traded for decommissioning. DONALDSON: I expect that we will see moves perhaps on the security towers in South Armagh. That's very high up the list of priorities for the Republican movement. This government will do anything to achieve some kind of token act of decommissioning to get people off hooks and I think there are talks going on that the Government are engaged in a sounding-out process on the ground with Republicans to see how much they need to deliver in terms of the Republican agenda on so called demilitarisation. BEALE: Republicans have insisted on further concessions if the IRA is to give up its weapons. They say army bases in town centres - like here in Crossmaglen - must go. But as well as demanding significant demilitarisation alongside any decommissioning, they also want wholesale change to the Royal Ulster Constabulary. That's now being addressed. But the reforms announced by Peter Mandelson are unlikely to go far enough to persuade the IRA to disarm. Like the army, the RUC hasn't always been seen as a positive force. Continued road-blocks are a constant irritation - particularly for Republican sympathisers. But to Unionists the proposed changes are worse than expected. Scrapping the badge, name and the jobs of six thousand officers is a bitter pill to swallow. The aim will be to recruit half the new Service from the Catholic community. But even this may not satisfy those who've tragic memories of the past. A December evening in 1975. A gang of loyalist terrorists are on their way to a Catholic pub. It's alleged they've been assisted by an RUC officer. MARIE DONNELLY: Patsy Donnelly had pulled up to get petrol. And Michael naturally stopped and filled up the petrol for him. And they shot Patsy dead. Could hear this shooting. When they threw in the bomb, they just said to us "This is your Christmas box you Fienian bastards. Everywhere went in darkness, everyone screaming, shouting, running, everywhere. I want to see peace. For the memory of Michael. There's nothing ever going to bring him back. But definitely there's nobody's life worth all that's gone on. Not one life worth it. BEALE: It's not the only time that the RUC has been accused of complicity in an attack. FEARON: Certainly in South Armagh the RUC have no support whatsoever because people just have never trusted them and they know the deeds they've got up to in this area. We want to see the RUC just root and branch changed, it's got to start from right the bottom, it's got to start with a completely new service. Not tinkering with the old one. EMPEY: We're seeing a police service that was has been butchered for years, cast aside, and that's what's happening, no matter what anybody says about it. And I know it was a plan the Government had long before the Good Friday Agreement was ever heard of, but nevertheless that's the perception and that's the reality. And what is the other side of that coin? What are the Republicans doing by way of response? BEALE: Ulster Unionists say so far they've made all the moves, having to accept a series of painful concessions. By setting a deadline for decommissioning they now hope to force the IRA to act but the Republican Movement is refusing to accept any Unionist timetable. McLAUGHLIN: I think it will have the same effect as the other deadlines they have set. BEALE: Which is? McLAUGHLIN: Failure in terms of the objectives that they also mapped out. There's different ways of working with people and those objectives. I would have thought by now that Unionists would have realised that Unionists setting deadlines for Republicans is a particularly inefficient way of going about business. BEALE: There are some dissident Republicans who already feel they've given up too much. Francis Mackey left Sinn Fein when it signed up to the Good Friday Agreement. He didn't accept it was up to the people of the North to decide whether they wanted a united Ireland. He believes others are prepared to leave too. FRANCIS MACKEY: Sinn Fein have made concessions but the principle of decommissioning, I feel, has already been accepted. Sinn Fein have to quote their words - turned their constitution on its head. I said then and I repeat I could not be part of that. Republicanism has been based on the ending of British rule, based on the will of the people who voted for this and it has since then been usurped. We continue to highlight and expose that single issue which remains unresolved in this process. TOMMY McKEARNEY: Decommissioning will never be welcomed by the Republican movement or by Republicans in general. So there has to be a huge amount of soul searching. However, my instinct tells me that at present that there is more disenchantment and demoralisation than any great venom within the Provisional movement and that tends to make me believe that it will be accepted reluctantly albeit of course some people will walk away. BEALE: It's thought most of the IRA's arsenal is hidden South of the Border. But painstaking searches by the Irish police have unearthed few stockpiles. Politicians still hope persuasion will be more successful. But even if the IRA agrees to decommissioning Sinn Fein dismiss some of the suggestions to make it more palatable. Like leaving weapons in a sealed bunker. McLAUGHLIN: I just think it's just a waste of time and effort to be honest. I mean the idea that governments would accept and that their legal system could accommodate the idea of guns being sealed somewhere with everybody's knowledge and nobody will go near them is outlandish. BEALE: Few, if any, believe the IRA is about to get rid of all its weapons even though the Good Friday agreement requires every rifle and every bullet to be decommissioned by May the twenty-second. The best hope is that Republican paramilitaries will offer at least something. McKEARNEY: Frankly I don't think we are going to see any dramatic gesture, any great number of weapons publicly handed over or destroyed. The fact is that so long as some modest gesture is made which reassures General de Chastelain that the gesture has been made I think that's as much as anyone can reasonably expect. EMPEY: We're talking here about the start of an actual process of physical destruction of materials. We're not interested in tokenism. BEALE: Unionists clearly believe that the IRA and Sinn Fein would take the blame for stalling the process. But it's not just Republicans whose reputation is at stake. DONALDSON: People I have talked to who in November were prepared to give this process another chance for a few weeks are now saying very clearly 'We have been kicked by the government on the Patten report. We feel that the RUC have been betrayed by the government and we are not minded this time to be party to another fudge to save the government's bacon and to appease the Republican movement.' McLOUGHLIN: It's collapsed before. There will be other problems. What Sinn Fein is bringing to this process is a total and complete commitment to making it work. So if it collapses then we'll be part of building it up again. BEALE: It seems the army will not be leaving Armagh in the near future. Though neither side wants to be seen bringing down the political process, it is now in jeopardy. Ultimately it's the governments that will have to decide to put the process in review. But Unionists and Republicans are ready to blame each other, and ready to pull out of the power sharing Executive. EMPEY: The process goes on but the institutions could very well be suspended. I hope that doesn't happen. I don't want it to happen. But all I do know is that it is impossible to sustain these institutions if one of the major parties to them is in default. And if the General's reports at the beginning of February, end of January is negative on this issue then we would conclude that default would have happened. BEALE: The hunt continues for a solution. But the deadline is just weeks away and both sides seem prepared to see the political process falter. It would mean the return of direct rule from Westminster. The greatest fear though for the people of Northern Ireland is that the best chance for lasting peace could still slip out of their grasp.
NB. This transcript was typed from a transcription unit recording and not copied from an original script. Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy.