BBC On The Record - Broadcast: 23.01.00

Interview: Susan Kramer - Liberal Democrat Prospective Candidate for London Mayor

Explains what she will do for London.



JOHN HUMPHRYS: Good afternoon. SUSAN KRAMER: Good afternoon. HUMPHRYS: That's the problem isn't it, you've had trouble getting people to take notice of you, partly because you're not exactly, forgive me for saying, a national figure, but also because your policies aren't distinctly different from the others. KRAMER: I don't think there's been a policy discussed, I mean far be it, in this race so far. It's all been sort of selection and fiasco. HUMPHRYS: You've gleaned a few policies here and there. KRAMER: Well that's good because we've been coming out very strongly on keeping the Tube in public hands and a coherent way to raise money through bonds to deal with it. I've been out on the streets.. HUMPHRYS: Ken Livingstone's policy.. KRAMER: Ken Livingstone's policy, jackdawed from us. I mean, you know, I'm very glad when someone does. Ken doesn't have it quite right and that's sort of a problem and I mean that's getting into rather sophisticated issues. The way we want to do it actually works and works for the financial markets so I think that's important. But the second area.. HUMPHRYS: Just save that one for just one second. I mean as you say that will be complicated, it will be very difficult trying to persuade a mass meeting or something that, you know, the subtle distinction between what pleases the city and may not. But it's essentially the same.. KRAMER: I mean it has underlining it the policy of keeping the Tube in the public's hands and that I'm glad to share with Ken. I mean I'd really like all the other candidates come on board with that, lost hope though it is. But I come with a background in business and finance, I got into this.. HUMPHRYS: Not a politician. KRAMER: That's not essentially a politician but I was so frustrated sitting on the Piccadilly Line, stuck in the tunnel one more time and thought I know how to raise the money to deal with this and I do believe that is going to be a very convincing fact for people. HUMPHRYS: Right, if you weren't stuck on the Piccadilly Line you'd be stuck and a great big traffic jam somewhere so that's the other thing isn't it. You want to keep cars, of course you want - who doesn't - you want to keep cars out of London. Ken Livingstone wants to tax them to keep them out, you know these workplace congestion tax. Do you want to do the same? KRAMER: I want congestion charging and for two reasons. One is that we have to raise money for public transport and I intend that every penny of congestion charging goes into public transport and I don't want to bring in the charges until we start to see some improvement so people have confidence that is what is going to happen with their money. HUMPHRYS: So it might be a very long time before it ever happens. KRAMER: That's not correct. I don't know where you've got that from. We would raise the money.. HUMPHRYS: From you, just a second ago.. KRAMER: ..we would raise the money with bonds almost immediately.. HUMPHRYS: ..sure but it might take an awfully long time to improve things. KRAMER: We'll start to see improvements come through quickly... that's not true. If you started to inject money, for example in the bus system, in information systems, countdowns so people knew where buses were, could move buses fast on priority routes. If we had concrete plans for putting in place improvements in the Tube. Get down there, name the stations we can tackle, when are we going to get improvements on track, when the new signally will start to come in. When you start to see those kinds of things actually happen you have confidence the congestion charge you pay will actually be used for public transport. HUMPHRYS: There will be a congestion charge even if you sorted out the Tube and many fewer people wanted to come in to London, that's a bit odd isn't it. KRAMER: I think we have a confusion here. You won't sort out the Tube unless you raise the money to do it, that is one element, it's also a management issue but it's very much a money issue and one of the mechanisms for that is to borrow and then you repay that borrowing through the congestion charging mechanism. HUMPHRYS: Ah, but you've just told me that you mightn't introduce congestion charging until things have started to improve so people will know that it's better. KRAMER: The whole point is if you go the bond strategy you raise the money now. You do not repay it now, you have some grace period, a period of time before the repayments kicks in. HUMPHRYS: How much, Ken says five pounds, how much from you? KRAMER: We've looked at that number because it's a number that's been developed by London first and Ken and I have the same sources. I really want to consult. I would like to look at it very closely but I think it's in that arena. What I am looking at is it ought to be a bit more than the travel card you pay to use the bus, Tube and the train because for your five pounds I would also let you, in a sense, use the bus, Tube and the train because it would act as a travel card for those purposes. So that's the thinking on how you get to the number. HUMPHRYS: So if you go to the same source that Mr Livingstone has gone to for that, you might go to the same source about workplace parking levies because you want one of those as well, Ken Livingstone wants one of those as well. KRAMER: I'm still, I believe we have to.... I believe the jury is out on workplace parking levies, I'm not particularly keen on them myself because I don't think they do much about congestion. HUMPHRYS: Not 'cause you're scared of business? KRAMER: I very much think business is important. I mean we've been having a good dialogue with business. It's not a matter of getting the business vote, it's making sure that business succeeds in London, that is absolutely crucial. We need the jobs, we want business to thrive. One of the reasons business supports congestion charging, provided every penny goes into public transport is because public transport and relief of congestion matters for the life of our businesses. HUMPHRYS: I'm a bit surprised you're not very keen this morning on the workplace parking because it's on your website isn't it, so it's part of your manifesto.. KRAMER: Yes I did say at an earlier programme that we had some...no the manifesto comes later.. HUMPHRYS: But I mean it's there, you know if anyone clicks on to your website, then you know they will see it there and now you're saying... KRAMER: I only became alert of the fact that it was on the website .... I don't look at it very often. It's the truth and we did say HUMPHRYS: ..perhaps you should.. KRAMER: ..you're right I should. We did say to people we need to take a re-look at that. What I have said is, I've got some people looking now at the whole issue of workplace parking 'cause there are arguments pro and con. We will come out with a final decision by the time of the manifesto which is a few weeks away.. HUMPHRYS: I should hope so and you'll tell the people running the website. KRAMER: But my own feeling is - absolutely yes - I have passed on that message - but I have to say our focus has been the street campaign and sometimes there are little glitches. That one has been a glitch. HUMPHRYS: Yes, for Mayor of London you'd have to run lots of things all at the same wouldn't you. But anyway... KRAMER: With a few more resources than the Liberal Democrats have. HUMPHRYS: Let's look at the Community Constable thing. Now that's something else that you want and so does Frank Dobson and all of that and what's going to be paying for that. KRAMER: Completely different programmes. HUMPHRYS: Right, different programmes but it's got to be paid for. KRAMER: Let's look at what I'm proposing, and this has happened by going out and talking with people in the community. There is as it were an empty space. There is no-one out on the streets today providing security on the street in our communities and I have said we must fill that gap and I want to do it with a new force that would report to local authorities and the mayor. We'd draw in resources that are already out there, that's some of those resources - the park police, the state specials, parking wardens but give them training, give them a common uniform, let's have them in radio contact with the police and their role is basically to nip trouble in the bud before it develops. Get those groups of kids, report the graffiti, the rubbish, the broken light, you know the damaged bus stop so that we actually get a sense of security back on our streets. HUMPHRYS: A good idea no doubt but lots of people would say: 'but again we've got a little problem here because again, according to the website, the money that's going to provide all of that is going to be produced by the workplace parking levy'. KRAMER: Now here I'm sure the website is better on this and that..no it doesn't come from... HUMPHRYS: ....well which is true.....? KRAMER: Not the workplace parking levy, it talks about the money coming... HUMPHRYS: It says so. It says so. KRAMER: It talks about the money coming from those original sources, in other words we already have, as it were, park police and estate specials so you have that as a starting point. Now the enforcement of congestion charging is going to require people out on the street to enforce it but we will give them this multiple role so that again will let us use those funds to build up this particular force so it does start to work and I've got people now honing in on getting the numbers absolutely complete. HUMPHRYS: Well why not get someone honing in on this thing of your because....(both speaking at once)..... what I'm stuck on, is what you are saying on your website, which the nearest thing we've got at the moment to a manifesto obviously because we haven't got a manifesto yet....... KRAMER: Well you could talk to me. That's a very good way to do it. HUMPHRYS: Well indeed but people..... not everybody in the world can come up and have a chat with you - pleasant though that would be for them and no doubt for you so what they do is they go to your website and they see, as we see this very morning, their numbers, the numbers of the community police, would be boosted by levies from congestion charges and the workplace parking levy. KRAMER: Congestion charges is correct...... HUMPHRYS: And the workplace parking levy? KRAMER: It's the workplace parking levy that I'm questioning... HUMPHRYS: So that should be withdrawn as well? KRAMER: Well that has been... I've always said and I've been absolutely consistent in this so there is a mistake on the website that I have not come to a conclusion on workplace parking charges. I don't think particularly they're a good idea. HUMPHRYS: So in that case you might have a problem with money for these other things then, mightn't you - if that's what was going to pay for the community police. KRAMER: No because the core mass that we've done has been on the congestion charging, it hasn't included workplace parking so as I say.. HUMPHRYS: ..a bit draft to put it in there.. KRAMER: ..it is quite legitimate to say that we seem to have a slip up on our website and I apologise for that but that's not the core of what we're doing. We're not websiting, we're trying to find good ways to provide extra...... HUMPHRYS: Modern days they all go together. You've got to get it all right these days. You want to rebuild trust between the police and the ethnic community as well - what a surprise. Is there a party out there that doesn't want to do that? KRAMER: Absolutely not I hope because it really has to come from all of us if you're going to rebuild trust. What I have said and it's an important statement to make that that matters to me both as a candidate and if I were privileged enough to become mayor. It is a crucial task to take on... HUMPHRYS: ...in which case, can I just ask you this point. Terribly important, we've very nearly out of time - can I just ask you this. 'Terribly important', you say, 'absolutely...' which is odd isn't it because you don't have a single ethnic candidate in a potentially winnable seat for your party, on your party list. KRAMER: We have a situation in our party where it has not met the challenge of bringing in large numbers of ethnic minorities. Now that is changing and when I go out and campaign on the streets we have a lot of good people from different communities who are out there with me..... HUMPHRYS: Not in time for the election for the Assembly..... KRAMER: We are equally guilty. What I will say is that it was Liberal Democrats who put the language into the Act that made tackling discrimination a crucial task for the mayor. Very important and part of our dedicated commitment. HUMPHRYS: Susan Kramer thank you very much indeed. KRAMER: You are welcome.
NB. This transcript was typed from a transcription unit recording and not copied from an original script. Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy.