BBC On The Record - Broadcast: 06.02.00

Film: School Selection%3A Has the Labour Government abandoned its opposition to selective education and grammar schools?



JOHN HUMPHRYS: David Blunkett won himself a great round of applause when he told a Labour Party conference before the election how strongly they felt about comprehensive education. "Read my lips" he declared, "no selection in education". But that was more than three years ago. What's happened since the election has led many Labour supporters to wonder if he really meant it. As Jonathan Beale reports, those who want to get rid of Britain's last grammar schools feel they're fighting an uphill battle. JONATHAN BEALE: In a year of primary school your future can be decided in a matter of minutes. Testing is designed to pick out the brightest pupils for academic success. It's also been seen as divisive and damaging for those children who fail: DAVID BLUNKETT: Let me say this very slowly indeed. In fact if you can watch my lips. No selection either by examination or interview under a Labour Government. BOB MARSHALL ANDREWS: I think selection is a process which fails many children and as such of course I would favour a Government that had grasped this particular nettle and said that selection will cease. DEREK WYATT: We need a system for our children that is representative of the needs of our communities. And it is divisive to divide children at ten. I cannot find a single educational philosopher or educational professor to say it is right to separate children at ten. JOHN BERCOW; We not dealing here with machines. We are concerned with the future of individual children and its to these individual children's needs that education should be tailored. That must involve having some degree of selection in our education system, and that must mean some academic selection in our education system. BEALE: It already exists in many state schools. Even comprehensives are choosing a proportion of children purely on academic ability. But for the moment eyes are focused on schools that exclusively cater for the brighter children: Grammar Schools have been the battleground of British education for nearly half a century. This Government has inherited Labour's traditional hostility to the 11 plus. And it will be judged by many on whether it allows such a clear cut case of academic selection to continue. The history of Labour's opposition to selection is unequivocal. As long ago as 1955 it said the 11 plus should be scrapped . There were once more than a thousand Grammar schools ..now there are just a hundred and sixty four. It's their future that's still to be decided: BERCOW: Grammar schools are beacons of excellence in our education system. They are renowned for their academic results, for their sporting prowess and for their cultural achievements. It is mad, literally mad, in a country that needs to raise its level of educational attainment, to talk about abolishing some of the finest state schools in the country. WYATT: I went to the grammar school and my brother and sister failed the eleven plus. It marked them and still marks them. It's a terribly iniquitous system. You cannot fail seventy five percent of your community at ten. BEALE: Hopes were high that this Government would open the door to equality - the same learning opportunities for every child To many that meant getting rid of the old academic elite. But despite David Blunkett's promise the 1997 election manifesto mentioned nothing about scrapping the grammar school system. ERIC HAMMOND: They don't say they want grammar schools abolished. They say they're providing the means where parents can abolish them. It's a bit of a coward's corner I think. BECKY MATTHEWS: It would have been much better had they gone into government and say 'this system is dead in the water; we will change it where it exists.' BEALE: Instead the opponents of the 11 plus are having to do some complicated sums. First they must find enough parents to sign a petition before they can trigger a vote. Twenty percent of parents eligible to vote on the future of grammar schools must sign the petition. MATTHEWS: In Kent to ask twenty percent of eligible voters to sign a petition - and its not a simple signature - there are actually nine boxes that each person has to fill in. In Kent, in the recent Euro elections I think less than twenty percent went down put a cross in the box. So we don't underestimate the difficulty of the task BEALE: Opponents of the 11 plus in Kent will need more than forty-five thousand signatures to force a ballot. Some believe it's a figure that they will never reach.. MARSHALL ANDREWS: I think that the Government set out deliberately to make this a very difficult process . Now that is because I think that philosophically possibly the Government is not wholly committed to an end to selection. HAMMOND: The way I read it politically is that it's really a bone that was thrown to the old unreconstructed left in some long forgotten decision in the Labour Party Conference annuals and they felt this was the best way to do it, that no grammar school was going to go under - or maybe one on the fringe where they are on their own - and so honour would be satisfied. I think it's very dishonourable actually. BEALE: So far only one group of parents in the entire country has reached their target for a ballot. That's in Ripon where the debate is over just one school. In Kent this is just one of 33 Grammar schools. The Government is watching from the sidelines while parents line up against each other to settle the future of Grammar Schools. But Ministers are acutely aware of the dangers in taking sides on the emotive issue of a child's education. Not least because parents expect politicians to practice what they preach: BLUNKETT: Watch my lips. No selection either by examination or interview. BEALE: Supporters of academic selection are swift to point out that 12 members of the cabinet since 1997 have been products of the Grammar school system. But they are more likely to be judged by how they choose to educate their own offspring. Tony Blair says he'll be the first Prime Minister to send all his children to state schools. But he's attracted criticism for choosing the London Oratory for his sons. A school that selects after interviewing both prospective pupils and parents. Harriet Harman - the former Social Security Secretary - has been accused of more blatant hypocrisy. In the case of one of her children, she snubbed local schools in favour of a Grammar School ten miles away. BERCOW If a parent who is a Labour Member of Parliament sends his own children to a selective Grammar School - and that is what a Grammar School is, a selective institution - but then does not support the right of other parents to do the same , that is hypocrisy. MARSHALL-ANDREWS: I would have found it uncomfortable if I with my strong views on selection had at the end of the day sent my children to a selective school. I would have found that really very difficult and very uncomfortable BEALE: Tony Blair appears to be more concerned about the bigger picture. Like making sure New Labour's policies appeal to a wider audience. Many of the Grammar schools left are in former Tory strongholds like Kent. And Labour doesn't want to see its marginal seats here wiped off the map: BERCOW: Before the election it became clear that there were substantial numbers of parents in marginal seats around the country who were pro Grammar schools and whose support for grammar schools would stop them voting Labour if they thought Labour would abolish Grammar Schools outright. WYATT: I think New Labour came in with a promise that it would not unduly unpick middle England; and there are parts of middle England that are grammar. MARSHALL-ANDREWS: I would be very sorry if the Government's motivation was an electoral rather than an educational one. BEALE: Critics say it's not measured up to expectations on grammar schools. Nor has the Government clamped down on the selection policies of other schools. In fact it's allowing comprehensives to apply general ability tests for a proportion of their entrants. Those championing all-ability schools say the system is still loaded against them: CAPERSON: I think a lot of educators actually felt that if there were a Labour Government there would be a clean break with the selective past and it would be the opportunity finally to produce the benefits of comprehensive education to the whole of the country. And I think many of us are disappointed that that hasn't happened yet WILLIAMS: We are pitting professional against professional. Up until now grammar schools and high schools and comprehensive schools have worked well together with the ultimate aim of improving the academic standards of all our youngsters. I do not wish to spend time debating this issue for a moment longer than is necessary. Let's go back to working together to improve education for all youngsters. BEALE: New Labour's education policy bears little resemblance to the old. Labour's fundamental opposition to selection has now been transformed. And all the apparent inconsistencies have been carefully covered up: Like art, the Government's attitude to selection can be interpreted in different ways. First it was no selection. Then it was no more selection. And most recently it's being interpreted as some selection but only by aptitude: BLUNKETT: "Watch my lips - no selection". POWELL: Certainly this government is encouraging certain forms of selection. It's fostering a specialist schools policy which is leading to the establishment of a large number of secondary schools which can select a proportion of their students by aptitude. Now there is significant debate about whether you can select by aptitude or whether that's not a covert form of selecting by ability. BEALE: It is, according to the Government, an entirely new formula. There are now nearly 500 schools which can select ten percent of pupils by aptitude. The fully comprehensive system of the 60's and 70's is seen as an experiment that failed. MARSHALL-ANDREWS: The type of selection which I think is worth considering is something which the Government are now actively promoting - and I think it's a very good piece of government policy - and that is specialists within schools. So you have beacon schools, for instance, for languages, for sport, for mathematics, for engineering. BERCOW: The government seems to be in favour of selection by aptitude and yet it is opposed to selection by ability. It's happy to have people selected because they're good at playing a musical instrument or because they have a facility for technology or because they're adept at sport or because they're skilled in languages, all of that's alright as far as this government is concerned but if you happen to be generally academically able, that apparently is a sin the Government can't forgive BEALE: Labour though is speaking a very different language to the one it spoke in opposition. And it's still not clear how its core supporters will react. True the new words are far more soothing to many middle class voters. But it will be difficult to please both sides: BERCOW: They're not quite sure what to do so it's mix and match: it's say one thing and do another; and indeed it's say different things to different audiences in different places at different times for different purposes This is chameleon politics. BEALE: Do you think this Government wanted to get rid of grammar schools? WYATT: That's a hard question to answer. BEALE: The answer may well satisfy these grammar school children. The odds are that their school will be preserved. But it's unlikely to satisfy those Labour supporters and parents for whom selection is a lingering injustice.
NB. This transcript was typed from a transcription unit recording and not copied from an original script. Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy.