BBC On The Record - Broadcast: 27.02.00

Film: LABOUR 100 - Terry Dignan asks whether the Labour Party has lost its soul in the transition from Old to New



TERRY DIGNAN: A hundred years ago a party for working class trade unionists was formed. Today it seeks to represent all classes. It's leader has built a coalition of support the like of which the party's founders could only have dreamed of. But at what cost to its original purpose? Labour came into existence in towns like Swindon to create a more equal society. New Labour makes a fairer society, not equality, its aim. It rejects the old Labour idea of making the poor richer by making the rich poorer. It wants to be the party of the affluent as well as the poor, a one-nation party, or as some would put it, a party without enemies. Julia Drown won Swindon South for Labour at the last election. Although it's a Southern boom town, Swindon contains deep-rooted poverty. Failure to win elections has meant Labour has only rarely in its history been able to help society's less well-off. JULIE DROWN: Well the Labour Party's always existed to help the most disadvantaged people, many of whom live on estates like this but also to increase the prosperity of the country as a whole. But we haven't in many elections convinced people that that is what we're about and so we needed to change to prove that. I think people did think oh yes they might help the unemployed, they might help lone parents, but they'll ignore the rest of us. I think we just never really convinced them. We never got the message across that we were for the many, for everybody. DIGNAN: Indeed it took the party nearly half a century to win an election. The 1945 Labour Government nationalised industries like coal, created a National Health Service and sought to eradicate poverty. This was a party which believed in fighting inequality by redistributing wealth and intervening in the economy. BRIAN BRIVATI: It believed there were answers to economic questions which involved State intervention to promote greater equality. It's a bit of a mouthful but using the State, using government to promote equality of outcome, that's what made it different from other political parties. DIGNAN: 1976 was a watershed for the Labour movement. Cutting spending at a time of high unemployment, Labour was accused of betrayal by public sector unions. Strikes in the Winter of Discontent led to defeat for Jim Callaghan in 1979. The party split. In 1983, committed to high taxation and public ownership, Labour under Michael Foot lost disastrously. Swindon went Tory. We asked one of the town's ad agencies, Emery Mclaven Orr, to show how they would have illustrated Labour's unpopularity in the '80s. ACTUALITY: Left-wing, Communism, the Red Flag, Red Ken..........." DIGNAN: But back in the eighties, Labour's new young leadership had already got the message. If it was ever to win power again Labour would have to accept that many voters no longer felt attached to nationalised industries and the welfare state. That was the advice from those closest to Neil Kinnock. CHARLES CLARKE: It was necessary to look, in a managerial way, I suppose, much more ruthlessly at the way in which some of the great collective institutions had actually built up and whether they were really serving the interests of the individual citizen rather than those who simply were working for them. Over the thirty-five or forty years since 1945 there was a need to look again at the way that the great organisations which had been established - the nationalised railways, the nationalised health service and so on, were they really working in the most effective way or had they become sclerotic in some respects. DIGNAN: Kinnock abandoned the red flag for a red rose, and started the long haul to making Labour electable. It meant rejecting state intervention in the economy and allowing the public sector to contract out services to private companies. CLARKE: What did arise I think, was a sense that the market could play a more effective role in some areas of public activity where traditionally many, many had thought the market had no role whatsoever to play. So there was a reassessment of the role of the market, an acknowledgement of the positive contribution the market could make. DIGNAN: But Kinnock still lost. The union block vote was ditched by his successor John Smith. To the irritation of Labour modernisers, Smith rejected further radical change. Following his death came Blair and New Labour. Eager to attract affluent voters, Blair reformed the party's Clause Four commitment to public ownership and promised not to raise income tax. But what did this mean for the poor? This self-help shop is in one of Julia Drown's poorest estates. It's a place to get advice on how to get out of welfare dependency and into work. That's also New Labour's approach to tackling poverty. Gone is the idea of raising the living standards of the least well-off by redistributing wealth from the better-off. DROWN: Well what the Government is wanting to do is to make it very clear that the route out of poverty is to get into work - for everybody who can work. And it has actually been a successful policy already. I mean here are things like the New Deal for Lone Parents, enabling them to get into work and the New Deal for the Young Unemployed, for the long-term unemployed, really is equipping people with the skills they need to be able to get into work. BENJAMIN WEGG-PROSSER: What we have is a party which has changed and which has modernised. It's brought in new policies but it's values have remained, the values of social justice, of fairness, of equal opportunity exist. What has changed is the way in which you get those things. DIGNAN: But those who know the party's history disagree. They argue that New Labour's attitude to the poor has changed quite fundamentally. Even the red rose now seems to belong to another age. BRIVATI: Blair doesn't believe, and Brown doesn't believe in equality of outcome. They believe in equality of opportunity. Now that can make huge differences to millions of people's lives, but it's different. It's fundamentally different. DAVID MARQUAND: I think they see it like this. Here we are in this ferocious, savage, highly-competitive global economy. That's a fact of life, we didn't create this but we live in it, it's a jungle. It is not about, sort of, taking money away from the very successful to, to, to pour it back into the disadvantaged. It's is about giving the disadvantaged the tools with which they can themselves struggle and compete, if you like, in, in this new global marketplace." DIGNAN: For most of its hundred years Labour has struggled to win over the aspiring voters of the suburbs and ever-expanding private housing estates. In towns like Swindon, New Labour has made keeping the trust of these voters its main objective. What that appears to mean is constantly re-assuring them about sensitive issues such as taxation.. DROWN: Well, they didn't completely trust the Labour Party - I think there was a particular issue on tax. The Tories' double whammy posters and so on did have a big effect and it was reinforcing some of their fears over the Labour Party. People here work, work hard and they want to be rewarded for, for being in work; and, and in previous elections they have been worried that, that Labour would just keep taxing them." DIGNAN: So how would our Swindon advertising agency market today's Labour Party? By branding it as a party that appeals to rich and poor alike. Those who were pushing for change in the Nineteen Eighties believe Labour had to create this new coalition if it was ever to win power again. CLARKE: The great mass enterprises of production which were characteristic of our economy and which were the basis, the core of Labour support, have gone - as the economy has changed, technology's moved forward, and so on. So Labour has had to think, how can we build a coalition across a wide range of different types of people in different types of occupation which is different from our traditional coalition - but focused on the same goal, to achieve a just society which means those who are worst off get a better crack DIGNAN: New Labour's greatest strength - it's ability to appeal to a wide coalition of voters - could, potentially, be its biggest weakness. Trying to please everyone, it's argued, may mean avoiding tough decisions. ACTUALITY: For you, for everybody. Both individual and inclusive of everyone else. BRIVATI: The New Labour Party in my view, is a very, very, broad church. It's so broad, it's almost meaningless the kinds of constituencies it's trying to represent. Much broader than it's ever tried to be in it's history before. What the Labour brand is trying to represent are really some very, very, diluted values. Compassion, maybe hope, maybe but, they're so diluted I mean no politician is gonna stand up and say, "I'm against compassion. I'm against hope." TONY WRIGHT: You can't just live in a world I think where you think you can, you can as it were please everybody. There comes a point where you have to be absolutely up front about what you are doing. It does occasionally say things, mean saying things to people that, that may seem difficult; that may on the face of it seem unpopular; that some focus group may have told you might cause a bit of trouble - but, but I'm afraid political leadership involves that." DIGNAN: The old Labour Party made the people living in council estates like this one their main priority. New Labour also wants to help the least well off but not it seems by asking the affluent to make sacrifices. Increasingly, this is seen as the biggest source of tension within the party. DROWN: We got our fingers so burnt in, in '92 that you know you can't help thinking people - in one survey will say oh yes I'll pay a penny more on, on tax", and they - it's as if somehow in their mind they think that it's just one pence, and then when it really gets to the ballot box and that paper they, they, they haven't voted for it - the British people haven't voted for those taxes and it is because they want to be rewarded for working hard. WRIGHT: What that doesn't mean though is I think that you become immobilised because you're, you're, you're frightened of elements of that coalition fracturing if you move in a certain direction rather than another. I mean I just don't think it's the case that middle class people, for example, are prepared to see basic public services run down, come under severe funding pressure, because we dare not confront an argument about taxation . I mean that's what political leadership is all about; we have this huge majority, we're doing awfully well, but I think a little bit more courage on that front is probably the key to our longer term success." ACTUALITY: (MUSICIANS) "One, two, three." DIGNAN:: The economy of Wiltshire is growing fast and tonight Julia Drown celebrates with the county's businessmen and women in a Swindon hotel. Regarded by Tony Blair as an essential component of the New Labour coalition there's no sign they're going to be asked to pay more for a fairer society. WRIGHT: I'd like to see Tony Blair make some big speeches actually saying yes we're trying to tax people sensibly, we're trying to tax in new ways to, to raise the money that we need. But actually taxation is a kind of civic responsibility - because if you don't do that, you've got every party in the land simply following a tax cutting agenda. I think that's the end for a party of the, party of the Left." DIGNAN: A hundred years ago Labour set out to create a more just society. Tony Blair says it failed largely because of its inability to succeed at the polls. Blair's created a coalition of society's winners and losers. But has it been at the expense of enfeebling the party's values and discarding its original purpose.
NB. This transcript was typed from a transcription unit recording and not copied from an original script. Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy.