BBC On The Record - Broadcast: 12.03.00

Film: BUDGET PREVIEW



JOHN HUMPHRYS: Now it's the budget next week, as if you didn't know and Gordon Brown will, no doubt, play the prudent Chancellor again. It's a role he enjoys. And over the past three years he's saved quite a lot for the government's piggy bank. Now he's under great pressure from his own supporters to spend some of it. But he's also under great pressure from his new friends in Britain's boardrooms to cut the tax burden - and, as Paul Wilenius reports, he might have a problem doing both. PAUL WILENIUS: The Church - for centuries it's given the nation moral guidance. And for some politicians it's helped turn their trade into a crusade. GORDON BROWN: Our prudence for a purpose is hard earned and it is hard won and we will not sacrifice it for today's standing ovations, tomorrow's headlines and next week's easy slogans or next month's false solutions. WILENIUS: Gordon Brown is a politician of strong beliefs. He has high ideals of helping the poor, but thinks he can only meet them if he's cautious and prudent. Indeed, he's set out to prove that on taxes, spending and management of the economy the Labour Government need take no lessons from the Conservatives As the son of a Scottish Presbyterian Minister, Gordon Brown is steeped in the moral values of the Church. As Chancellor he's portrayed himself as a financial puritan. But in his forthcoming Budget and spending review he'll face real temptation to spend much more on public services, testing his prudence to the limit. Brown has made prudence his watchword. He's now courted by the businessmen who once shunned Labour, making the Bank of England independent has broken Labour's association with high inflation. Over the last three years he's kept spending tight and direct taxes down. As a result he's gained the trust of the financial community and the confidence of the electorate. ANDREW DILNOT: I think people are increasingly accepting that Gordon Brown really is a prudent Chancellor, we've public finances improving. Admittedly they've been improving since 1993 but under Gordon Brown's stewardship we've gone into surplus for the first time since the 1980s. KATE BARKER: The main way in which Gordon Brown looks a lot more prudent than previous Labour Chancellors is that he's been very successful in setting plans on public spending and sticking to them. We haven't had public spending overruns, indeed if anything we've had public spending under-runs, that's certainly gone a long way to making business feel that we're in new territory with this Labour Government. WILENIUS: The Protestant work ethic is also at the heart of Brown's policy and his next Budget is set to follow in the same direction. Building on his New Deal for young people, the National Minimum Wage and working family tax credits he will do more for those in work. But despite the 1p cut in income tax next month, for the first time the purpose of his prudence is being seriously questioned. He's facing accusations from the Tories that through stealth taxes the overall tax burden is going up. BARKER: The Government was clearly very worried about the figures that were published a month or two ago showing that the tax burden in the UK had been on the increase since Labour were elected. But going into the election they'd clearly like to say: look, over the last couple of years we haven't increased the tax burden any further and that probably means, because if he does nothing on 21st of March the tax burden will rise a little that he will look for ways to roll back the burden of tax both on the consumer and I think on business. DILNOT: I think the government would very much like the tax burden to be falling by the end of this Parliament. I think they're embarrassed by the fact that the tax burden has gone up, they seem to be very nervous and twitchy whenever it's mentioned. There's no way they can get the tax burden back down to the level it was at the beginning of this Parliament without massive tax reductions that I think are inconceivable. 1992 CONSERVATIVE PARTY ELECTION BROADCAST: Adding up the cost of all the promises Labour have made to date, it comes to an astonishing �35 billion extra a year. WILENIUS: The devastating attacks on Labour in the 1992 election campaign on tax have left their mark on Brown. He doesn't want to be attacked for rising taxes before the next election, which is now expected in spring of next year. But many in his own party are opposed to more tax cuts which they believe are aimed at Middle England as well as neutralising the Tory assault. Brown fears such a move could leave Labour politically exposed. DAVE PRENTIS: I would not be in favour of tax cuts, there have been a number tax cuts over the years. As far as we are concerned the economy is strong, there's no doubt about that, the economy will remain strong over the next two to three years . GILES RADICE MP: I don't think there will be any big reductions in tax before the next election. We've already achieved our 10p starting rate, we've had the reduction of 1p in the standard rate and we've kept the top rate steady, so there won't be any big decreases in taxes before the next election . WILENIUS: Gordon Brown doesn't want to be accused of putting up the burden of taxes and he could cut tax rates again before the next election. But he's facing growing pressure from his own party and some voters who want better public services rather than more tax cuts. They want the Chancellor to show that he can be more generous and caring than the Tories. Brown now faces the problem that in the first two years Labour increased spending more slowly than the last Tory government. To some he was prudent, but to others he just appeared mean. Now he's got a lot of ground to make up. Many in the party want him to spend billions of pounds extra on health, education, pensions and so on. They want Brown to turn his back on tax cuts and start giving generously to hospitals, schools and much more. RADICE: We're in the Labour Party because we want, partly because we want to see extra resources go to public services. We want to see public services which have been badly starved in investment - particularly education and health - we want to see them properly funded . CLIVE SOLEY: At the end of the day it is about delivery. We have to show that things like education and health are better at the end of our first term of office than they were before and we have to be able to point above all to our own activists and core voters that that money is going in our step by step increase. ACTUALITY: WILENIUS: Taking a close look at the figures the economy is doing well and Brown has kept spending very tight. DILNOT: If you look at current spending and strip out capital spending there is less spending under this Labour government than there was under the Conservatives. WILENIUS: There's no doubt he has a lot of money to play with, although there's some debate over exactly how much. DILNOT: It was far below this at the beginning of the Parliament, but now you can see the government is in surplus. I think there's no doubt that the Chancellor's got a bit of room for manoeuvre, the economy's being doing very well, taxes have been buoyant, public spending has been growing quite slowly, so if he hasn't got some room for manoeuvre now I think he never would. I think he might have seven, eight, nine, ten billion pounds of room for manoeuvre a year by the end of the Parliament. PRENTIS: We understand that the Chancellor has got something like eighteen billion pounds in surpluses, we also understand that over the next four years those surpluses will rise. It is our understanding, that all of the money that is needed to restore our public services to the levels that they were ten, fifteen, twenty years ago, all the money that is needed is available without borrowing a single penny and if that is the case I think there is no excuse for not taking action now. There will never ever be a better time. WILENIUS: Gordon Brown is putting the finishing touches to his Budget here at the Treasury, and it could be his most difficult yet. If he spends too much, he could destroy his reputation for prudence and lose his new found friends in business. But if he spends too little he will undoubtedly upset many in his own party who feel he hasn't delivered enough for Labour's traditional voters. GORDON BROWN: Our Labour pioneers had a dream. They had a vision, they saw beyond the here and now because hard times did not teach them selfishness but solidarity. Our socialism,credible and radical. Join us, join with Labour, join us, join us on a journey. WILENIUS: Those who joined Labour, and stuck with it through the dark times, now feel it is time to deliver. They feel Brown has done enough to show that Labour can be trusted with the economy. They want him to show he cares by spending billions of pounds helping the less well off , and boosting public services . PRENTIS: Now time is the time for Gordon to actually show that he has got a heart as well as being an Iron Chancellor, you know the yellow brick road is there for him and I actually believe that he could do a great deal of good for this country and for himself if he does grasp the nettle and deal with the issues that are transparent to everybody, and if he can deal with them now, well before a general election I think he will be quids in when he comes to the next election. RADICE: Its clearly important for the party; but it's important for the government because we actually have some major commitments in our manifesto, on education and health, that there really is going to be a difference; and we've got to show before the next election that these big increases in education and health investment are really coming through and are really changing what schools are like and really changing the National Health Service. WILENIUS: But here's the biggest danger and frustration for Brown. His prudence may have helped him amass a huge war chest, but he will not be able to spend it all. If he starts pumping too much money into public services and into people's pockets he could overheat the economy. Inflation could be stoked up, the Bank of England could be forced to put interest rates again and the Pound would get even stronger, harming export industries. DILNOT: It's unlikely that he could very easily spend all of that money in this budget because if he were to spend it now I think the City would say hang on a moment Chancellor, you've got the monetary policy committee raising interest rates which is raising the strength of the pound and yet here you are in your budget loosening fiscal policy and trying to boost the economy, surely that can't be right. BARKER: In terms of this budget I think that the business community wouldn't like to see a lot of extra amounts of spending over the next year at all. The real concern is that Gordon Brown keeps the budget as tight as possible in order to keep pressure off higher interest rates and that is really the overriding concern for a lot of smaller businesses, a lot of exporters. WILENIUS: Brown's standing in the Labour Party at the moment is rising, but to maintain that he must show he cares. Party activists and MPs want him to spend freely. But if the pressure to remain prudent and please Middle England is too great, it may cost him the popularity he so values in his own party. SOLEY: He's got to be able to deliver the economics of it and so far he's done that brilliantly. But that balance is going to go on tearing our, at the you know the heart and the head of the Labour movement and the Labour Party, and the Labour government, its going to go on tearing at it. But at the moment we do need to do more public expenditure . We need to focus on these key areas, health education, pensions and so on .We do need to focus on them. WILENIUS: So to keep the Labour Party together on its journey, Brown must spending billions of pounds more on public services. But he must also stop taxes rising to make sure he doesn't scare away his new Labour converts. The balance between the two has to be just right - for the light to continue shining on Labour's prospects at the next election.
NB. This transcript was typed from a transcription unit recording and not copied from an original script. Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy.