BBC On The Record - Broadcast: 02.04.00

Film: Film on UKIP. The United Kingdom Independence Party won three seats in last year's European Elections but can they win seats at the General Election.



JONATHAN BEALE: Things aren't quite what they used to be for Cornish Fisherman Mick Mahon. MICK MAHON: We've got the richest fishing grounds in the world around our coasts and we've got a declining industry. There's something wrong somewhere and I blame Europe. I used to earn a pretty good living at fishing but now I haven't drawn a wage out of my boat for four or five months. It's Brussels that's destroyed my living. BEALE: Europe sets the limits for his catch. But he wants Britain to take control of his destiny. For him and many other fishermen it can mean only one thing. Leaving the European Union. MAHON: I don't see a future for myself and that is why I want out. It's the main reason I'm supporting the United Kingdom Independence Party because they want complete withdrawal from the Common Fisheries Policy as well as Europe. If we can withdraw from the Common Fisheries Policy, I see a future for my industry and myself. And UKIP is the only party that's offering me that. BEALE: The decline of traditional industries like fishing have given added momentum to the political campaign to leave the European Union. The United Kingdom Independence Party won three seats at last years European Elections - one of them here in the South West. But that was with a low turnout and PR - an electoral system which favours smaller parties. UKIP is still largely an unknown quantity in British politics. It must now prove that it can pose a threat at the General Election. BEALE: UKIP members aren't the only ones who are wondering how well they'll perform. ACTUALITY BEALE: Christian Sweeting is the Conservative Candidate for Torbay. Europe is an important issue here. Visiting a local business he's left in no doubt that the Tories' views on Europe really do count: CHRISTIAN SWEETING: What specifically do you think your problems will be in this business? UNNAMED MAN: We've already had metrication impacting on us whereby legally we're obliged to do it but the customers don't want it BEALE: The Tories lost this seat in the last General Election. The Liberal Democrats won with a majority of just twelve. But it was UKIP's intervention - winning nearly two thousand votes - that sealed the Conservatives' fate. SWEETING: At the last General Election a lot of people went out there and they voted UKIP and they felt great about it for five minutes. They socked it to Europe for five minutes. At the next election I'm absolutely sure people will leave that ballot box having voted for a Conservative Member of Parliament to work for five years to maintain British sovereignty and perhaps to try and regain some of the things that are patently obvious that we need to regain in terms of powers from Brussels. ADRIAN LEE: One of the things the Conservatives are really trying to do is to claw back those voters that they see themselves as having lost to the United Kingdom Independence Party - to the Referendum Party again in 1997. And it's because the Conservatives lost a lot of those voters that actually they lost a number of seats in the South West of England - because the Conservative vote had ebbed into abstention and it had ebbed into support of UKIP and the Referendum Party. Now the Conservatives will be trying like mad to stop that happening again. BEALE: The race is on. In the red sports car is the UKIP candidate Graham Booth. The Tory has borrowed a British car for the day. Both want to prove that they only have the country's interests at heart. And they're both competing for the Euro sceptic vote. GRAHAM BOOTH: I've been a lifelong Conservative. But I'm afraid for the last five, ten years, seeing the way they've been giving everything over to Brussels, and discovering the UK Independence Party frankly I'm afraid I've left them and it'll take an awful lot for me to go back. ACTUALITY: But the large majority would agree that we must withdraw from the European Union. BEALE: UKIP is out in force for what was supposed to be a Conservative event. Except for the placards it's hard to tell the two sides apart. But they don't see eye-to-eye. UNNAMED WOMAN: You can't get clearer than that ...I will repeat to you again... BEALE: The Tories are not going to renegotiate Britain's membership of the EU or advocate withdrawal. But William Hague has hardened the party's line on Europe, and it's hoped the doubters can be won round. SWEETING: What's changed nationally about the Conservative Party is that Europe is far more at the fore in terms of thinking and policy. The Keep the Pound Campaign for example is making our position crystal clear as to where we stand on that issue and sovereignty in general. BEALE: The Tory leader is in Torbay on his nationwide campaign to save the pound. A boost for the local candidate ever eager to show off his party's Euro sceptic credentials. WILLIAM HAGUE: ....in Europe but not run by Europe and that wants to keep the pound.... BEALE: For Graham Booth though it simply doesn't go far enough. BOOTH: The only thing that will make me go back to the Conservative Party - and I'd have millions coming with me - is if they pinched our policy - that is withdraw from the European Union. BEALE: UKIP are not just fighting for the votes of disillusioned Tories. They're also targeting the support of those who may have backed pro European parties. The South West has become a stronghold for the Liberal Democrats. But UKIP are convinced that many who voted Liberal Democrat do not share the party leaderships pro European views. MAHON: There are one or two seats in the South West that are very vulnerable to UKIP er the UKIP party. I think the other parties, the Liberal Democrats in particular, are very worried about us. BEALE: The political ambitions of one Liberal Democrat have already been swept away on a tide of anti-European feeling. Until last year this lone figure was the Euro MP for Cornwall. TEVERSON: In our membership there is a concern about our European credentials. People were voting primarily around European issues for once in the European Election. The Lib Dem message was not one that particularly people wanted to hear down here. They like the UKIP message and I guess that didn't do my electoral chances a lot of good. People at the General Election will not primarily vote on the European issue and even if they did I think very few people would actually want to move to a complete withdrawal of the European Union. What they're trying to say is, we don't like Europe as it is at the moment, I'll make a protest vote. ADRIAN LEE: There's some evidence to suggest that Liberal Democrats may well be trimming their pro Europe sails to some extent - you know, in the sense that they're taking the line in the South West region in particular, that the problems with fishing and farming for example can be resolved by the constant application of pressure, the constant speaking up for farmers, the constant speaking up for fishermen, and by the revision of European policies. BEALE: But UKIP aren't doing themselves any favours. After bitter in-fighting they appear to have lost their way - or just lost interest. They're searching for a new leader. Nine hopeful candidates have been addressing some of the party's eight-thousand members. They know that whoever is the victor will have an enormous task. Michael Holmes was the UKIP leader and one of its three MEP'S. He's now turned his back on the party but not the Strasbourg Parliament. He's not optimistic about UKIP's long term chances of survival. MICHAEL HOLMES: I think it hinges on who becomes leader in three weeks time. Whoever wins is going to have problems with another part of the party, like I had when I won two years ago. I think it's, I give it no better than fifty-fifty that it would grow to reach the potential. BEALE: It's been a time for soul searching: UNAMED MAN: We have conspired to rip ourselves apart by indulging in internal warfare. UNAMED MAN: I joined this party to fight the European Union and not fellow Euro- sceptics. UNAMED MAN: We are not a pressure group; we are a political party and our business is getting votes. BEALE: There are fundamental problems for whoever takes over the leadership. At present UKIP are divided on whether to field candidates in all parliamentary seats and whether to offer more policies than withdrawal from Europe. It could make the difference on how they're viewed - as a serious party or a single issue campaign. BOOTH: We have got a raft of policies - in the European elections.... BEALE: ...What are they? What policies? BOOTH: Well, we've got policies on every aspect of Government. BEALE: Like? BOOTH: Well on Health, Education and Defence. BEALE: What are they? BOOTH: Oh, no, in, in two minutes I can't go through that and in fact we're working on them again now. BEALE: At least UKIP is still afloat as a party and preparing to fight over 400 seats in the general election. Most members realise they're unlikely to win seats as they did in the European elections. But they hope they can force the bigger political parties to alter their course on the issue of Europe. LEE: If UKIP was a serious party that was here to stay, we'd be seeing a great deal more activity from it now at this point in time. We'd be seeing it putting up candidates in local elections. That would indicate that it had a local organisation and local support. It's had major problems nationally, it's had a leadership resignation, the executive has been split, they've had all sorts of difficulties. It is short on organisation, it is short on finance and it is perceived by the electorate, largely, as a single issue party. HOLMES: UKIP has to be realistic, it's never going to be a government, its main job in the next five years is to try and turn one of the main political parties and obviously particularly the Tories into a position of rejecting membership of EMU for all time on constitutional grounds and therefore admitting that we may well have to leave the European Union politically. BEALE: UKIP has set a course for complete withdrawal from the European Union - and so far no other party is willing to follow. But political opponents are nervously watching the horizon. UKIP may still take away valuable votes.
NB. This transcript was typed from a transcription unit recording and not copied from an original script. Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy.