BBC On The Record - Broadcast: 09.04.00

Film: Iain Watson finds that Labour MPs in the North will not be satisfied with a new English Regional Committee at Westminster to provide regional government.



JOHN HUMPHRYS: On Tuesday a new committee will be born in the House of Commons. Before you doze off at that exciting news... you should know that this one could indeed have profound implications for the way England is governed in the future. It's called the Standing Committee on the English Regions and it's a direct response to devolution in Scotland and Wales. But will it be enough to satisfy the growing demands for greater powers by the regions of England. Iain Watson reports. IAIN WATSON: Newcastle United are in training for their big match later today. Many of the footballers successfully combine the role of national, as well as local, hero. But politics is a funny old game. Devolution to Scotland and Wales has raised the question of what to do about England. Reconciling the issue of regional versus national identity is proving tricky. DOUG HENDERSON MP: There is a demand in the regions of England to be able to speak out better for themselves; to be able to take some of their own decisions in a way that they currently look over the borders in Scotland and Wales and see the Scots and the Welsh doing. LOUISE ELLMAN: I think the government is rather nervous about devolution but I think they have to recognise that devolution cannot stop part way - it is time for the voice of the English regions to be heard WATSON: Newcastle United hope to bring the FA cup back here to St James's park. But politicians in the North East say the government should give an additional to boost to local pride. They are making a play for more powers to be devolved to the English regions; But the government is moving very cautiously. On Tuesday, a new Standing Committee on Regional Affairs kicks off. Once established, we could see attendance records being set for a Commons committee. That's because it will be open to all 529 MPs who represent English seats. The committee will give them extra time to Westminster politicians who want to discuss matters of importance in each region. But here in Newcastle, there is strong support for a political arena that's much closer to home. HENDERSON: The demands in the region are for something in the region so that the region can look after affairs that it can better manage itself - a body which can represent the region in both Westminster and indeed in European political corridors. And I don't think the people in the region, whether they come from the political community or the economic community, will feel convinced by what the government proposing in this. I don't think its a bad idea -I just think it's an idea that won't carry a lot of weight WATSON: Campaigners for English devolution hope the new committee will be a preparation for more radical change. But they don't think it's a fitting a substitute for more local control over matters like health and education. It may also be too supine a body to stand up to the powers that be. While every MP from England can attend, only a small team of core members will have voting rights. Critics say the government will hold sway. BOB MCLENNON: It is nothing like regional government, it is wholly controlled from the centre. The committee will be chosen by the majority party, as proposed it will be dominated by Labour. The government appears to be wanting to have a committee of only thirteen reflecting the composition of the House of Commons as a whole, and not the political composition of the English members. That would result in an over-balancing towards Labour. It would also seem that the government is seeking to control the agenda, and that is really the opposite of what regional government should be all about. WATSON: But one aspiring member of the new committee thinks that it can develop into a strong forum for regional debate. STEPHEN LADYMAN: One of the slight weaknesses of this new committee is of course that the government will be choosing the topics for debate, and that of course will limit the new committee. but one of the things of course the core membership of that committee can do, and the people who are interested in this committee is they can lobby and campaign and press the government for a variety of debates to take place in it that will reflect all those different views over a period of time. WATSON: Sprucing up the English Regional Committee may appear to some as a bold move, but it doesn't represent a clean break with the past. It was used, then put away, once before as part of the last Labour government's failed constitutional reforms. But it's been kitted out and made ready after private polling suggested the Conservatives were being seen as the more patriotic of the two main parties. They're hoping the English question will help them strike at Labour's dominance. SIR GEORGE YOUNG: We would see the establishment of an English regional committee as a wholly inadequate response to devolution. The Scottish parliament has tax raising powers and it can pass primary legislation. There is no suggestion that the regional assemblies, or indeed the standing committee, would have similar powers so it's not an appropriate response to the imbalance in the constitution that has been brought about by the Welsh Assembly and Scottish Parliament. Our answer is to make the situation stable and fair, there should be a procedure for English bills on which only English MPs vote -or, as is more likely, if a bill covers only England and Wales, only English and Welsh MPs vote, WATSON: But Labour politicians say that English people are more concerned about their own regions than with what happens at Westminster. St James's Park is getting a �50m makeover, and the government says its Regional Development Agencies will encourage more investment where it's needed. But backbenchers want to see these work in partnership with new political structures. ELLMAN: The government realise that there is now a ground swell of opinion looking at the English regions, they know it will not go away, this is a very positive move forward, and if this is linked together with directly elected regional assemblies it will be part of a package which will meet the needs that are now being identified WATSON: The politics of identity are never black and white - Tony Blair is both a Newcastle supporter, and an England supporter. But here in this sports shop in the north east sales of Newcastle shirts far outstrip those of the national team, and many Labour politicians are arguing that it's now high time that political expression is given to this strong sense of regional identity. They say that post devolution, only elected assemblies will create a level playing field between the nations and regions of the UK. HENDERSON: People in the North East are not Celts, they are not like Scotland or Wales, but they are very different culturally from the south of England. They have I think a much greater sense of community spirit which is partly born out of an anti-London thing but it is there. People co-operate together, the business community co-operates for instance with the trade union movement and with local government I think far better than in other areas of the country, and that reflects a common identity and I think that's the basis of regional government in the future in areas like the North East and I think the government have to understand that. WATSON: These Newcastle supporters are in good spirits; they're gathering in the Black Horse pub in Whitley Bay before travelling to London to cheer on their side in today's match. Most of them have no doubt where to place their loyalties. MAN: Geordie first, British second England, really I've no interest in England because England's London, the South, not up here. I mean possibly where people in the North East feel let down is obviously we've now got a Labour government, where the majority of MPs are from the North East and we have been let down because the first regional vote has been for the Mayor of London which is actually, personally, I think, quite shocking. WATSON: Devolution elsewhere in the UK has encouraged a debate about whether a regional assembly here would be a good idea. GIRL: I think so, because it would have somebody that's local who knows the issues that we've got in Newcastle, every area has got their different issues, and they can sort of better know where the money is needed. WATSON: The locals are mildly disappointed at Labour's plans. They're being offered evolution, not devolution. Labour's ruled out an English parliament, but they have said they'd give the regions their own elected assemblies, where there's a clear demand. But it could be a long wait. That's because the idea of regional government had fallen foul of a backroom tactical tussle. When Labour fulfilled their pledge to create Regional Development Agencies last year, those on John Prescott's team hoped these would act as a nifty first step towards fully democratic regional assemblies. But powerful players in Cabinet stood in their way. A sceptical Prime Minister watched from the sidelines. But, in today's Observer newspaper, Tony Blair admitted he was wrong to try to rein in Welsh devolution. Supporters of English regional government think he's now moving in the right direction. TONY BLAIR: We can see devolution as a necessary part of keeping Britain together; more regional decentralisation in England makes sense. ELLMAN: The Prime Minister's speech did open out the opportunity of recognising diversity within the English regions and in meeting those needs. His comments did recognise that devolution in Scotland and in Wales, had brought added strength to the United Kingdom and in saying that I think he opened out the possibility of that same thinking being applied to opportunities in the English regions. WATSON: It's Schools cup final day in Newcastle. St Cuthberts are turning out to take on Heaton Manor. Watching the match is Ian Mearns, a Gateshead councillor who chairs the campaign for a north east assembly. He knows that spending on public services is higher across the border in Scotland and wants the North East to get a piece of the action. He is far from impressed with the powers that will be available to the new English regional committee, but he believes that its very existence could push forward the debate on regional government and win recognition for the problems of the North. IAN MEARNS: What I hope will happen will be that the committee actually comes round the regions and accepts sort of days within those regions when the MPs from the region can be involved, as well as the committee members themselves and call to account ministers for what is or is not happening in those regions where the committee meets. I would hope that that would be a way to operate because it would actually bring the government out of central London to the regions themselves. WATSON: Supporters of regional assemblies hope the new Committee will focus attention on their demands and they look to Scotland for inspiration. The last Conservative government aimed to defend the union by beefing up the Scottish Grand Committee and taking it round the country. They hoped to deflect calls for devolution, rather than to give them momentum. But, unwittingly, their strategy rebounded and demands for devolution grew. In just a couple of hours from now, Newcastle will take to the pitch here at Wembley to compete in the FA cup semi final. They will take on the expensively-assembled glamour boys of Chelsea in a classic North/South clash. Their ultimate goal is to win this trophy, the FA cup itself. But away from Wembley, in the more rarefied atmosphere of Westminster, a similar battle could ensue. There are fears that the new English regional committee will be used by northern politicians to do a bit of grandstanding. They could use it to argue for more resources for their regions at the expense of the south. LADYMAN: There are areas of great deprivation and poverty in the south east and the south west, those problems have to be put on the table at this committee. If we don't have a voice in this committee, those of us from the south, it will fail. We must not allow ourselves to be drowned out by MPs from the North -if we do that will be a disaster. HENDERSON: Everybody looks at their own back yard in these things and clearly there will be arguments put by southern interests, northern interests and so on, but I think if a fair system and a just system is to be brought about then there is a need for change. And that means that there must be more resources distributed to the poorer regions of England like the north west and the north east WATSON: The setting up of an English regional committee this week could kick start a whole series of contentious debates. And as devolution to London, Wales and Scotland has proved, Labour's ambitious programme of constitutional reform has put them under unforeseen pressure. The question now is whether the new committee will create more problems than it solves.
NB. This transcript was typed from a transcription unit recording and not copied from an original script. Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy.