JOHN HUMPHRYS:                And let's now turn to a 
senior Ulster Unionist, Jeffrey Donaldson.  Mr Donaldson, you are one of 
those rejectionists, as at least as described there by Martin McGuinness, 
are you persuaded by what he just had to say?

JEFFREY DONALDSON:            Well I found the term rejectionist 
insulting to be quite honest with you. I've worked for democracy in Northern 
Ireland and against terrorism for the last twenty years.  I want to see 
peace and progress in Northern Ireland but it has to be real peace and 
therefore I don't regard myself as a rejectionist. In fact the people who 
have rejected democracy for the last thirty years were the IRA.

HUMPHRYS:                    But do you accept this 
proposal, this statement that was put forward by the IRA as being a significant 
step forward, that's really the question isn't it. 

DONALDSON:                The real question is the one 
that you were trying to get an answer to from Martin McGuinness unsuccessfully 
and that is, is this the beginning of a process of actual decommissioning 
of IRA weapons.  Now that is the key question and when you look at the 
statement from the IRA yesterday all that they are offering at the moment 
is to open up some of their arms dumps for inspection by two independent 
persons from the International community. They have made no proposal whatsoever 
to decommission their weapons and bear in mind that we do have legislation 
in place, the Northern Ireland Arms Decommissioning Act 1997 that provides 
for decommissioning and sets out two options: one, is that the paramilitaries 
including the IRA can destroy their own weapons under the supervision of 
General de Chastelaine and his independent commission. The other option 
is for them to transfer the arms to General de Chastelaine who will then 
destroy them. Now there are no proposals from the IRA in this statement 
to do either of those things and therefore what we need to do and what 
David Trimble asked this morning is is this the beginning of a process 
leading to complete disarmament because it's disarmament that we need to 
see if the threat of violence is to be removed. 

HUMPHRYS:                    But surely it is something 
to build on and some people in your own party would be perhaps surprised 
that you appear to be rejecting it more or less out of hand. 

DONALDSON:                Well I am sorry that is not 
what I have said. What I have said is what we need to know is that this 
is a real move which is going to bring amount disarmament...

HUMPHRYS:                    Do you see this as a 
step towards that. That's really what I am trying to get at.  Are you saying 
that statement is at least important in the sense that it can help us now 
to move forward. Do you see it in that light?

DONALDSON:                We don't know that because Martin 
McGuinness and Sinn Fein IRA won't answer that question. Martin McGuinness 
failed to answer the question that you asked him on that very point. So 
we don't know whether this is the end of it and I have to say based on 
what I have heard so far I suspect that this the end. Martin McGuinness 
said in the interview just now that this ....that the nut had been cracked. 
Well does that mean that all the IRA are ever going to do is periodically 
permit two people from the International community to inspect some of their 
arms dumps to confirm that they are still there because the problem with 
that is that the IRA retain possession of those arms, they have full access 
to those arms and the threat posed by those arms remains and the question 
I think that ought to be asked of the IRA is if you believe in peace and 
if you want peace then why are you holding on to the arms. After all the 
Republican movement when it entered this process signed up to the Mitchell 
principles of democracy and non-violence and one of those principles is 
a commitment to the  total disarmament of all paramilitary groups and what 
we have got in this statement isn't disarmament. 

HUMPHRYS:                    So, nothing short of 
them handing over physically handing over or perhaps destroying weapons 
would persuade you when you have your council meeting of the Ulster Unionist 
Party in a fortnight's time, nothing short of that would persuade you to 
say let us support this and go back to doing business with Sinn Fein? 


DONALDSON:                John, that's not my position. 
 That's actually the position and the policy of the party.  The policy 
of the party is that we need disarmament, in fact complete disarmament 
by the twenty-second of May this month. Now the government has unilaterally 
set aside the deadline that was set out in the agreement, and what we need 
to see is disarmament, that's the party's policy, it's not my policy, it's 
the policy of the party.


HUMPHRYS:                    So therefore David Trimble 
your leader should have rejected it out of hand effectively, and ....

DONALDSON:                David Trimble has himself this 
morning said that there are key questions that we need answers to.  I've 
outlined some of those questions just now to you and includes perhaps the 
most important question of all, is this leading to disarmament?  Are we 
going to get actual disarmament by the IRA?  That's what we need to know.

HUMPHRYS:                    But he saw it as being 
grounds for optimism.  At least that was certainly the way  I read his 
interview this morning and indeed yesterday.

DONALDSON:                Yes, but we need to know the 
answers to the key questions from the IRA.  Is this the end of the process 
for them, do they regard what they offered yesterday, access to some of 
their arms dumps as being the end, or what do they mean by putting guns 
beyond use, what does that actually mean? Those are questions that we need 
answers to if people are to have the confidence.  We are being asked to 
put Martin McGuinness and Bairbre De Bruin the two Sinn Fein ministers 
back into government  Between them as Minister of Education and Minister 
of Health they will be responsible for almost half the budget, half the 
public expenditure in Northern Ireland.  Now those are very important positions 
and we need to know that all the ministers in our government are committed 
to exclusively peaceful means.  We need to know that they don't have a 
private army with all their arms retained at their beck and call, and we 
need therefore the answers to clear questions.

HUMPHRYS:                    In just a very few words, 
are you prepared to split the Ulster Unionist Party over this issue.  Just 
a few words, we only have a few seconds left.

DONALDSON:                Well, I don't think it's a question 
of splits.  We will obviously have to look at this.  We need answers to 
questions that need to be posed to the IRA and then we will meet to discuss 
and vote on this matter.  All that I'm saying is that in terms of our present 
policy where we're looking for disarmament that's what the parties were 
committed to in the agreement, and what the IRA offer at the moment doesn't 
represent disarmament.

HUMPHRYS:                    Jeffrey Donaldson, thank 
you very much indeed.

DONALDSON                Thank  you.