BBC On The Record - Broadcast: 01.10.00

Film: ULSTER UNIONISTS FILM. Iain Watson looks at the threat to David Trimble's leadership of the Ulster Unionist Party and the risks for the Northern Ireland Peace Process.



IAIN WATSON: It's tough at the top; in the Ulster Unionist Party, leadership challenges seem to be coming round with increasing frequency. David Trimble's hold on power is uncertain. But there are fears that if he goes, the peace process will be gone with him. David Trimble's political future could be decided within weeks. Senior members of his own party are now denouncing him as a lame duck leader and even his closest allies are saying his hold on high office is in danger. But the real danger is to the peace process itself. A senior official for the Northern Ireland office told On the Record 'without Trimble, we're doomed.' JEFFREY DONALDSON MP: I think there has got to be a change of policy and if there isn't a change of policy then I think the party as a whole, never mind the leader, is in deep deep trouble. KEN MAGINNIS MP: In a major UK party you wouldn't find a policy change leading to a leadership change, but emotionally people are now tied into, they've paid for where we are with their own blood and hence that could lead very easily to a leadership change and I believe a leadership change, under those circumstances would give us thirty years of turmoil. BRIAN COWAN: We want to see a situation where everyone survives in the forthcoming period because these are the people who are the architects of the agreement, these are the people who have given the commitment to the Agreement. WATSON: Trimble's grasp on his own party has been slipping; he narrowly survived a leadership challenge in March, gaining just fifty-seven per cent of the vote. In May he called on his party to support his decision to share power with Sinn Fein at Stormont - even though the IRA had refused to decommission any of its weapons in advance. This time, he gained only 53% backing. Now, his opponents are saying his leadership is about to be consigned to history. It's party time for the 'No Surrender' faction of Unionism - The Reverend Willie McRea - a member of Ian Paisley's Democratic Unionist Party - snatched South Antrim at a by-election ten days' ago. This had been the Ulster Unionists' second safest seat. Many of David Trimble's MPs are now worried that this spectacle may be repeated in the general and local elections next year. Pro-Agreement Unionists, along with the Northern Ireland Secretary, blame the candidate. DAVID BURNSIDE: I think there will be a lot of spin doctors trying to use the line, "Oh well, there are - there's this great swathe of new Unionism out there. Sitting out there, doesn't vote, so, everything's perfect out there, and they didn't vote in this by-election because Burnside was sceptical about the agreement, and somehow they're going to vote in the future." That's dangerous. Because that's fooling yourself of the feeling of the Unionist population. Everybody who was on the ground in South Antrim knows, the Unionist community is disillusioned WILLIE ROSS MP: If we lose in such a very moderate liberal constituency, heaven knows what the position is going to be in the others, certainly much worse. WATSON: David Trimble is on foreign territory. As Northern Ireland's First Minister, he attended a meeting with his Southern Irish counterparts in Dublin last week. A new grouping in his own party, called Re-Union, say it's time he was more vocal about the benefits of the Good Friday Agreement. And the Irish government say he has much to be proud of. The Republic's long-standing, constitutional claim over the North has been peacefully put to rest. COWAN: I think great credit has to be given to David Trimble and to those like him in the Unionist Party, who have for example by their negotiating stance, they have brought about changes in Articles 2 and 3 of the constitution which no rejectionist by means of the less constructive, means by which they were going about things, would ever achieve. ALEX KANE: I think one of the troubles with the Agreement is that it wasn't promoted. It became, even though we adopted it, it became the policy that dare not speak its name, to some extent and if the leadership is not seen to have a total loyalty to the Agreement, it makes it very difficult for your grass roots - now I think there are a lot of benefits within the Agreement WATSON: Evidence that the Good Friday Agreement is working in practice was on display here in Dublin Castle. Ministers from both sides of the Irish border met to discuss areas of common concern - such as tourism, and funding from the European Union. But David Trimble and other pro-Agreement Unionists say that unless there's progress on the two major issues which concern them - the decommissioning of paramilitary weapons and reform of the policing service in Northern Ireland - then his leadership, and with it all the institutions of the Good Friday agreement, could fall. Some say that nothing short of divine intervention may overcome one of the most intractable difficulties -the reform the Royal Ulster Constabulary. Proposals from the former Conservative Cabinet minister Chris Patten are before parliament. These would change the name of the force, reduce its manpower and scrap its badge. All this is seen as essential if Nationalists are to be persuaded to join up. But some Unionists would prefer to leave the Agreement behind than see Patten's proposals implemented in full. BURNSIDE: This agreement was not meant to destroy the Royal Ulster Constabulary, that's not why I voted for it, that's not why many Unionists voted for it, here and now, like me are very disillusioned. If it's Patten a hundred per cent, it brings down the Agreement in my opinion because he operated outside the Terms of Reference and that's what David Trimble has said as well. WATSON: In June, Cyril Ramaphosa from the ANC and the former Finnish president, Maarti Ahtasari, visited Downing Street following an inspection of IRA weapons dumps but nothing has happened since. Perhaps to encourage a new gesture from the IRA, the government announced plans for further troop withdrawals from Northern Ireland and the abandonment of extradition proceedings against Republican terrorists. But another inspection of IRA arms won't be enough to satisfy sceptical Unionists. JEFFREY DONALDSON: Well the first arms inspection didn't save South Antrim, it didn't stop the DUP winning that seat - who in their right mind is going to suggest that a second inspection is going to save the Ulster Unionist Party from electoral meltdown? WATSON: The waterfront hall in Belfast symbolises a growing sense of confidence in the city during a period of relative quiet. But, over the past year, it's doubled as the venue for many of David Trimble's battles with his own party. The Ulster unionists will gather here for their Annual Conference next Saturday. Even those close to David Trimble say he'll get a reception somewhat less friendly than Tony Blair received at the hands of the Women's Institute. But Trimble's opponents say he'll try to suppress dissent by packing the meeting with his own supporters and controlling the agenda; the real showdown will have to wait. Trimble's opponents plan to call a meeting of the party's ruling Ulster Unionist council for later this month and demand substantial policy changes which could make his position as leader untenable. ROSS: I would expect the council meeting to be called within the relatively near future; I would expect at that council meeting there will be demands for policy changes in regard to the Patten report on the RUC and policy changes in regard to weapons - no guns without government is still the basic demand. DONALDSON: Well, I think that what we have to do is, urgently review our continued participation in a power sharing executive, that includes Martin McGuinness, and Barbara de Brun, Sinn Fein IRA ministers, in the absence of any decommissioning by the IRA. That may mean that the executive has to be suspended until decommissioning has happened or it may mean that we have to withdraw from the executive in the absence of decommissioning. KANE: If that policy is endorsed by the Council, I think David Trimble's position would probably become untenable because he would be a First Minister, in name only, because he would have been forced to withdraw by his own party and I don't think the IRA would shift. I don't think nationalists would shift, I don't think the government would shift and I think Trimble would shift, I think he would probably choose to fall on his sword at that stage. WATSON: Jeffrey Donaldson gained credibility with the anti-agreement unionists by walking away from negotiations just before the Good Friday agreement was signed. He had concerns as to whether decommissioning would ever be delivered, and over the early release of terrorist prisoners. At thirty-seven, he's in no rush for the Ulster Unionist leadership. But his opponents say, if David Trimble falls, he'll try to step in to the vacancy KANE: If he doesn't strike now, someone else will strike, and the danger of Ulster Unionist politics, is that leaders tend to stay much longer than expected. DONALDSON: My priority is to ensure the Ulster unionist party is placed back on a firm footing -whatever it takes to do that I will not shirk my responsibility as an elected representative and I hope that that will be the same for others. WATSON: So you won't rule out standing? DONALDSON: Well we haven't got a leadership contest at present and therefore there is nothing to stand for, but at the end of the day it is absolutely essential the Ulster Unionist party grasp these issues. There is a crisis of confidence at the moment, there is no doubt about that and that needs to be dealt with, that requires firm leadership and I think everyone now is watching and looking to see what David Trimble will do, will he provide that firm leadership? MAGINNIS: Those who talk about going back to strong leadership forget that strong leadership never achieved anything. well it did, it achieved the Anglo Irish agreement. And that wasn't very clever. That was a huge slide down a very unpleasant slippery slope for Ulster Unionism. Do they forget that? Do they forget the coffins that they walked behind? WATSON: But David Trimble can take control of events, says the defeated South Antrim candidate . As party leader, he could call a meeting of the Ulster Unionist council himself and steal a march on his opponents by taking a tougher line on decommissioning and policing. David Burnside says this would avoid an assault on his leadership and help heal divisions. BURNSIDE: I think he's got to set deadlines - deadlines on decommissioning, hand over a real product. Guns, hundred of guns, and tons of explosives. I think it's better to lead from the front rather than have the party dragging, dragging the policy endorsement out of the party organisation, I think it would be much better if David led from the front, and I hope he does. ACTUALITY. WATSON: At a rally of the pro-Agreement Re-Union group, there was plenty of talk about fighting for a tolerant, inclusive unionism. But if David Trimble now takes a tougher line on decommissioning and policing, he may leave himself with little option in the future but to withdraw his party from the power sharing executive. This would lead to the second review of the peace process - and pro-Agreement unionists say that's nothing to cheer about. KANE: It just about survived the last one, and I think we are back to the problem as well, if the previous review and suspension didn't resolve the dilemma, there's no reason to believe that a second one will, because I think the real issue here is IRA weapons and all weapons, loyalist weapons as well and I cannot see how Ulster unionists pulling themselves out of an executive will encourage the IRA to actually hand over their weapons WATSON: But for some unionists, getting the policy right is more important than propping up the current leader - or the Good Friday Agreement, in its present form. DONALDSON: It is a very perilous political process that stands or falls on the fate of one individual. And let's look at that. Surely if that is the case then the agreement is so fundamentally flawed, it is so fundamentally weak that it needs to be reviewed. WATSON: Northern Ireland has come a long way since the Good Friday agreement was signed two-and-a-half years ago. In the next few weeks, the province will find out if the peace process has enough momentum to overcome the current difficulties, or whether David Trimble's leadership, and perhaps even the process itself, are nearing journey's end.
NB. This transcript was typed from a transcription unit recording and not copied from an original script. Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy.