BBC On The Record - Broadcast: 15.10.00

Film: URBAN REGENERATION. More than a year ago the architect Lord Rogers produced a report on the state of Britain's cities at the request of the Government. Polly Billington looks at whether Ministers are likely to make the radical changes he proposed.



POLLY BILLINGTON: A stone's throw from a thriving city centre, East Manchester is emptying fast. Those citizens who haven't fled the social and economic deprivation live in some of the most run-down housing in the country. The relics of Manchester's industrial past cast long shadows across the lives of those left behind. And the consequences of decades of government neglect are everywhere. East Manchester is home to some of the oldest industrial buildings in the world and this isn't the first time there have been attempts to rejuvenate areas like this one. But the government thinks it has learned the lessons of the failed attempts of the past. The task of the Urban White paper will be to stop people building on the countryside and to bring hope to some of the most deprived communities in the country. Over decades, cities like Manchester have developed outwards, gobbling up the green fields that used to separate it from Bolton, Bury and Oldham. The countryside beyond is now under threat and the government's advisers want to discourage development there, and promote it within the city itself. LORD ROGERS: In East Manchester four out of five houses are either boarded up or being pulled down. So you have one house with sort of four, four houses empty around it. Everybody, all the entrepreneurs, all the people who can get out have got out. They've gone down from about eighty thousand people to about eighteen thousand people since the, since the war. Its a ghost town. BILLINGTON: The plans for turning the area round are under close scrutiny from residents who have suffered the effects of years of neglect and failed intervention. Attracting people back to places with such complex problems will be a mammoth task. Persuading existing residents that they will also benefit can be hard too. ACTUALITY. UNNAMED WOMAN: People have moved out, boards have gone up, all the shutters. People have been left really in isolation, because this has happened in every street in our area, and so you know, through this we've had more crime, UNNAMED WOMAN: On the plans we've seen today there's development along the canal for the new yuppie housing. General residents won't be able to afford this new housing. We want something that we can afford, that is for our benefit. BILLINGTON: Big prestige projects like the Commonwealth Games stadium being built here for 2002, might change the skyline, but can't solve the complex problems on their own. The government's many schemes are now working together - a health action zone, an education action zone and new deal for communities, under a pilot Urban Regeneration Company. Conservatives want a stronger foundation for regeneration - companies with more power. ARCHIE NORMAN MP: We would like to see real regeneration companies with quite substantial powers involving local authorities and local people and police and education, and people in education in each of the major inner city depravation areas of Britain covering quite wide areas, with substantial powers to make things happen and the vast bulk of our regeneration money and effort would go through these regeneration companies, instead of bypassing them and being dissipated. ACTUALITY. BILLINGTON: Richard Leese is leader of Manchester City Council and has overseen several successful projects like this techno- park in South Manchester. He's worked with the Regional Development Agency to attract inward investment, and the government's recently given them more money to encourage jobs. But do RDA's work? RICHARD LEESE: What we need is for the regional development agency to be very clear about what its priorities are. Where its intervention can be successful, and to make sure it does concentrate in those particular areas. There is always going to be a demand on it, to spread its very limited resources very, very thinly. We need to make sure that that does not happen. NORMAN: We're going to abolish the RDA's and all the regional bureaucracy that goes with it, and that will save us 70 million pounds alone, so we put that back into regeneration, and finally, we are going to address the causes of regeneration, the foundations of the problem, including the fact that we're fuelling the exodus from our cities by building all over the countryside. BILLINGTON: Local authorities believe they can play a bigger role in regenerating the areas they're responsible for - if they have more powers. And that could mean changes in the law. LEESE: Local authorities, government, other public sector bodies do not have sufficient powers to bring about the speed of regeneration that is needed in our most deprived communities. And in order for us to have those powers, we will need to have additional legislation. I hope very much that the urban white paper will indicate those areas, where government does intend to legislate to give us the powers we need. BILLINGTON: These houses will be razed to the ground and replaced with higher density homes. The hope is that Richard Rogers' vision for better city living will be more successful than previous attempts. He wants to reduce urban sprawl and for communities to live and work closer together. The government has already changed the rules in favor of building in town. New planning guidance requires that brown field sites are considered first, and that green field sites shouldn't be built on until there's no more room in the cities. Lord Rogers' report recommended there should be some financial measures to make the inner cities more attractive. The Government is considering at least one of them - whether suspending stamp duty will attract people to buy the kind of homes that will be built here. ANDREW BENNETT: Stamp duty's important in some parts, particularly the South East where an awful lot of properties do now pay stamp duty. Perhaps the solution is to put it up on green field developments, and down on brown field ones. But, you're into very complicated definitions of what is a green field site, and what is a brown field site. BILLINGTON: Halsworth Mill in Andrew Bennett's constituency in greater Manchester will soon house flats and work units because government money was spent to regenerate it. But the European Commission has ruled that giving money to make up the difference between the costs of building on brown field and green field is anti-competitive. Without so-called "gap funding" similar schemes in the future might not be viable. BENNETT: It's a huge brown field site which can be brought back into use. It's very important that these sort of developments are encouraged and people don't go off and build out in the countryside. It's very difficult to recreate the sort of community, the sort of services that you've got in an area like this. We've got to have in that White Paper a replacement for gap funding. We've either got to have sufficient money put up front so that regional development agencies can do it themselves or we've got to come up with an alternative to that gap funding. Absolutely crucial. Almost the way in which you judge the Urban White Paper: is that financial mechanism in place? BILLINGTON: Renovating old buildings incurs VAT of seventeen and a half per cent. New buildings incur nothing. VAT could be equalized. BENNETT: It's crazy to have the high level of VAT on renovation, and no charge on new build. If you want to encourage renovation - we certainly do in our city areas, lots of mills, things like that, that can be converted into good housing - then you want to have an incentive to do that, so why make it dearer to do that, and cheaper to do it on new build. BILLINGTON: That may not happen because the government's reluctant to be seen to raise taxes. Public money is being poured into the infrastructure to enhance the old industrial district before the mills are refurbished. There are similar costs to building on green field sites. When new estates are built out of town, roads are built, sewers dug, and the taxpayer picks up the bill. PROFESSOR ANNE POWER: The government needs to be able to charge the true public costs of building on green field sites. That is the most important power that it needs and the idea of impact fees is an attempt to wrap that whole idea up into a single charge. Each drive that we take, each bit of tarmac that we lay, each brick that we lay, actually costs us - not just environmentally but socially and economically too and somebody has to pay that cost. At the moment it is buried in the treasury. That cost has to be put on the people who are benefiting from moving out into green field sites - that's the developers and the house buyers. BENNETT: I think it's a very good theoretical idea, but I think in practice it's extremely difficult to measure what the impact is. If you look at perhaps a small patch where you perhaps put twenty houses onto a green field site they may be able to be accommodated within the existing services. Put on twice that number and they can't. So who pays? Is it the first houses or is all the houses? It's a very difficult mechanism. BILLINGTON: But buildings alone are not enough. The social fabric also needs to be improved. In this part of East Manchester educational achievement is so low, there's an education action zone to turn round local schools. At the moment the number of school leavers achieving five GCSE's is half the national average. If our towns and cities are to be attractive places to live people will need jobs and good schools for their children. Five years ago, the Church of the Resurrection primary school in Beswick had some of the worst results in the country. Now, it's a beacon school, spreading best practice to other schools in the neighbourhood. The head teacher Ms Hogarth is enthusiastic about the school and the role it plays in the local community. HEAD TEACHER: When I started here we had ninety pupils on roll. We now have two hundred and fifty. It's, I think it's a very, very important aspect of regeneration in an area that schools are successful, that you can attract people through successful schools, and that's what we're hoping to do within the area. ACTUALITY BILLINGTON: Manchester City footballer Jason Beckford teaches children how to keep fit and stay out of trouble. In the political game the Tories have identified improving inner city schools as a first step to bringing people back to an area. Their services-first policy means tackling crime and raising school standards would precede any other regeneration initiative. NORMAN: The regeneration companies that we will create will have the powers to use some of their funds, to fund an increase in policing over and above the norm that would otherwise be available, or alternatively they would have funds to start a new school, or to help a failing school by bringing in new management and saying we're going pump prime investment in this school and get the private sector to invest behind it. BILLINGTON: There are still obstacles to the government going as far as some would like. The Treasury, for example, is said to be reluctant about introducing financial measures that could result in lower revenues. And there's a political dimension. The reality is, many people, especially among those aspirational voters that are so crucial to the government's fortunes, want to like in places like Great Sankey, on the outskirts of Warrington. It could be the people who put the brakes on the government's enthusiasm are the voters. House builders warn without financial incentives it will be hard to reach the government's target of sixty per cent of homes being built on brown field land. PIERRE WILLIAMS: People aspire to a semi or a detached home in a place where they feel comfortable and secure. It's what people want. It's a question of whether or not these brown field sites are viable or not. The house builders are happy to build there but if the costs are too great, which they often are, then they can't work for a loss. What we need is funding to fill in that gap between loss and profit, so those sites can be used. ANDREW BENNET MP: In the North of England we need to have really absolute ban on green field development, and in the South East we need to have a huge amount of pressure put on so that it's very attractive to go onto the brown field sites and unattractive to go onto the green field sites. BARRINGTON: Warrington South's MP Helen Southworth has temporarily stopped more housing being built here by the oldest canal in the country, with the help of new government guidelines. HELEN SOUTHWORTH MP: That's a piece of land, people want to build houses right the way down to the edge but what local people want to see is that kept as leisure land and that's what we're working to achieve. BILLINGTON: The decision on the future of the land has now gone to a public inquiry. SOUTHWORTH: It's really important that there are rules that prevent fields like this from being built on because the countryside is really crucial to us all and once it's built on, it's gone for ever, you can't put it back. This is a really significant part of the leisure, and growing up development, the family place for people in Warrington. That's part of the reason people come to places like Warrington, they want to live in this sort of an environment and I want to see it protected. BILLINGTON: The government's at a crossroads in its urban planning policy. They must decide what measures they want to take to fulfil Lord Rogers' vision, while bearing in mind what they want to do might not be popular with those aspirational voters who want a house in the country and somewhere to walk the dog - like the locals on the edge of Warrington. ANNE POWER: They are trying to broker people's desire to choose freely where they live, to drive wherever they want and people being frustrated by seeing buildings going up everywhere and being stuck in traffic jams and they won't be brave enough to say we all hate traffic jams and we all hate buildings going up all over the countryside so let's all move back into cities so they will kind of go a little way towards encouraging people to move back into cities but not all the way because they are too scared of the electorate. LORD ROGERS: Every department in government has got to act. Education and schools, health and hospitals, employment and jobs. They all play an important part. Now there's been a tendency in this country not to accept this. Until we accept this, we will not have holistic, sustainable cities. We won't have cities that we want to live in. We can go on pouring money in to any one of those things but it will never work fully because if you can't actually get to the school, if you can't get to the hospital if the city is badly managed, if it's dirty, if the pavements are badly repaired, at all levels, then the city will not work. Therefore we need leadership which actually has a vision that where we live, that ninety per cent of us live, has really got to function better than ever before. BILLINGTON: There may be some disappointment if the White Paper is big on vision but small on detail, certainly in east Manchester where so much has been pinned on finally getting the formula right. If after eighteen months of reflecting on the contents of Lord Rogers' report the political will isn't there to make the vision reality, the hopes of another generation in the inner cities could be dashed once more.
NB. This transcript was typed from a transcription unit recording and not copied from an original script. Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy.