BBC On The Record - Broadcast: 19.11.00

Film: IAIN WATSON Reports on the Government's attempts to sell off council housing.



IAIN WATSON: Glasgow - last year's UK city of architecture; although it's a fair bet the accolade wasn't based on the design of the council housing. But now, something on a scale never attempted before is happening. Labour say it's nothing short of a revolution but it's not of the traditional, socialist variety. All of this could soon become a thing of the past, I'm talking about council housing. Here in Scotland the Labour/Lib Dem coalition have plans to transfer all of Glasgow's council homes, lock, stock and barrel, out of local authority control and in other parts of the UK they are watching eagerly to see if they can get away with it. But plans for the wholesale sell off of council housing in some of Britain's biggest cities is provoking strong opposition - both inside, as well as outside, the Labour Party. SEAN CLERKIN: The policy of stock transfer is a policy of gentrification - it's a form of social cleansing. FIONA HYSLOP: We saw the consequences for government when Scotland was used as a guinea pig for the poll tax. I think the size and scale of the Glasgow proposal and the fact this is one of the first ones will mean it will have big political consequences, both in Scotland and in the UK. LYNNE JONES MP: The new organisations will have to raise finance on the private markets and so it will be the banks and the financiers that eventually will be calling the shots. WATSON: Years of under investment means that around 1.6 billion pounds needs to be spent on Glasgow's 94,000 council homes - a sum beyond the reach of local government, because of Treasury rules, local authorities are placed under greater supervision than housing associations. Unlike councils, they can happily borrow large sums without this counting as public expenditure, that means more cash for the most needy estates. JACKIE BAILLIE: I think stock transfers represent an excellent way of ensuring there is radical new investment in our stock which is much needed and that we get the wider benefits of community ownership which is about regenerating communities across Scotland. At the heart of this is what the tenants themselves decide because the whole stock transfer proposal is of course subject to a full ballot of all tenants. HYSLOP: This whole issue is driven by finance, by getting housing off the public books and not about tenant empowerment and involvement. If you want tenant empowerment involvement, you have small scale transfers, or you make sure you do it under the local authority through devolved management. WATSON: With two by-elections in Glasgow this week - one for the late Donald Dewar's Westminster seat and another for his place in the Scottish Parliament - the SNP have made housing a key part of their campaign. But these canvassers are not politicians - they are tenants. There will be a ballot next year to see if they want to transfer to a specially-created, not-for-profit housing association which would have places for residents on its board. But a campaign is already underway for a NO vote. ACTUALITY CLERKIN: The tenants feel that their rents are going to increase. That housing benefit is going to be cut. That there's going to be more evictions and homelessness because they won't be able to pay their rents out of their income support etcetera. WATSON: Sean Clerkin, the leading opponent of housing stock transfer, is not actually a tenant himself - although more than forty tenants and residents groups have affiliated to his campaign. The Labour-led Scottish Executive say these campaigners are stirring up irrational fears. They say most tenants, who are on housing benefit, won't be affected by their plans, while the rest will face only a modest increase in rent. BAILLIE: If you consider the experience with housing associations, they have given guarantees that they will not increase rent beyond the sort of rate of inflation plus one. All those commitments have been met and if you take Glasgow as an example, you know we've given a firm guarantee over the next five years as part of a thirty year package for housing in Glasgow. So the assurances have been given and indeed when you compare it to local authorities, council rents have risen by a greater proportion. WATSON: The campaigners against housing stock transfer are inviting all the candidates in the Glasgow by-elections to a public meeting. The SNP say everything's on hold unless tenants decide to leave council control. HYSLOP: It means there is no investment in Glasgow housing just now, it's been on a starvation diet of investment, waiting for this ballot. Effectively it's blackmailing the tenants and that is completely and utterly unsatisfactory. BAILLIE: This isn't about bribery, this is about saying we want the best possible housing conditions in Scotland. Frankly, you know we can achieve it in ten years or you can wait thirty years, that's not a choice that we're prepared to make. The reality is by going down the route of community ownership, with all the wider benefits that that implies we are talking about being able to address all those concerns about repairs, about improvements in the space of ten years. WATSON: The Labour/Liberal Democrat coalition in Scotland is being attacked from both left and right. The SNP and Scottish Socialists say they lack the political will to invest in council housing; the Tories blame years of mismanagement by Labour local authorities. The tenants say there are bigger issues at stake CLERKIN: The transfer policy is going to lead to a mass policy of gentrification here in Glasgow, 34,000 council houses are to be knocked down and here in Drumchapel 1,000 council houses are to be knocked down to be replaced by a thousand private houses for sale. WATSON: Tenants believe they are being used as pawns in a bigger political game. Glasgow has a long history of housing militancy, the rent strike here during the First World War has been written into the annals of Socialist struggle. Then after the Second World War the Local Authority filled more than half the city with council homes. So if this bastion of old style Labour municipalism can be broken perhaps other lesser citadels may also fall. CLERKIN: Essentially Blair's government wants Glasgow to go private so the rest of Britain goes private on housing. We are confident that we'll get a No vote next year and that'll stop the privatisation of public sector housing and essentially all the opinion polls and all the surveys indicate that there will be a No vote. MARK STEPHENS: The Glasgow stock transfer could be very much a sort of Danish referendum of British housing. The impact in Glasgow could be felt far beyond Scotland's borders - part of new Labour's agenda is quite clearly to modernise, to use that word, local government and this is part of it, that local government should perform a strategic role rather than providing many of these services directly itself. WATSON: Birmingham - Britain's largest landlord after Glasgow, is also looking at ways to get new investment into housing. They're considering four options - all of which would mean more private money, in return for less council control. A final decision will be taken in February following a series of consultants reports. The council says the present situation can't go on. COUNCILLOR DENNIS MINNIS: Continuing as we are, really is a non-starter because we don't have access to the sort of money we need. What we do at the moment is to patch up some properties, direct some resources here and there, but we are inundated all the time, every year, from tenants who are saying, when are you going to get round to putting central heating in for me, or putting double glazing in somewhere else, or repairing the roof. The enormous task with eighty-eight thousand properties is just unbelievable. COUNCILLOR JOHN LINES: This council is going to spend tens of millions of pounds in setting up this so called deal, before they've asked the tenants. The government is not going to give them any more money because this government doesn't trust this council, any more than the previous Conservative one did. And what they could do is spend all that money on carrying out the repairs to our properties for the benefit of our tenants. WATSON: It may look as though these repairs and improvements are happening on a council estate - but this, according to Birmingham's Labour leadership, is really a glimpse into the future. Tenants on this inner city estate voted by a margin of two to one to transfer to a new community housing association, called Optima, a little under two years ago. With a mixture of extra money from the government and the private sector many of the improvements tenants wanted to see are now under way. Birmingham is considering transferring all of its eighty-eight thousand homes out of council control, but unlike Glasgow, it wants to see ten different community-based landlords take over from day one. These would be all modelled on Optima and would include high levels of tenant representation. MINNIS: Since the properties in my ward went to Optima, I cannot recall having had one complaint about any aspect of the housing, in that area, in terms of repairs, in terms of environmental matters, in terms of grass cutting, in terms of problems with lifts or doors and the whole lot, which does show that Optima is doing it right. Now I want to get it right throughout the rest of the city and the tenants deserve that. JONES: I can understand why the tenants wanted to transfer for Optima, because they would guarantee that there would be extra investment. That is not going to be the case if you have the whole of the ninety-thousand properties owned by Birmingham City Council transferring. Nearly all of them need investment and it's going to take time. It's going to be at least a ten-year programme, so people voting are not suddenly going to find, if they transfer, that the sort of investment that they've seen with Optima is going to become into their homes. So people need to be told the truth. WATSON: At a meeting in the community hall at the heart of the estate which the new owners, Optima, now call Attwood Green, tenants are finding out about future development plans for their area. Unpopular tower blocks will go; new low-rise private and rented housing will be built and a lot has already happened in eighteen months of new ownership. ACTUALITY WATSON: But there's also a downside. Tenants who moved on to the estate after the transfer pay rents that are five per cent higher than their neighbours. Some say the price of improvement is just too much. TENANT 1: We're actually going round with a petition because they want to come in next year doing fitted kitchens that we have got to pay for and we're up in arms. TENANT 2: One thing that Optima's done is that now we've got the cash in the bank and we are going to do what we said we're going to do and certainly if they don't, I mean for one, as a tenant director, part of my job is there to make sure that they do and I'm happy to sort of take on that role. WATSON: The government wants to see two-hundred-thousand homes transferred each year out of the control of English local authorities. That would mean a decade from now, almost half the council housing in England would be under new ownership. But a Labour whip has told On The Record there could be opposition - especially from northern MPs who've been councillors; they are far from convinced that a change of ownership can improve the nation's housing. But it's here in the West Midlands that the fightback has already begun. JONES: We've got to press the government to get more investment in areas like this so that... WATSON: Lynne Jones is the MP for the Grange Farm Drive Estate. She's being shown the effects of under-investment by the local housing manager. The government has given undertakings to write off Birmingham's housing debt of six-hundred-and-fifty million pounds, but only if the council gives up ownership. Lynne Jones launched a campaign last week aimed at persuading her own government to stop loading the system against local councils; tenants, she says, should not feel forced to change landlord. JONES: They should be given a real choice. Not a choice where they're told that the only way you can get investment is if you vote for a transfer. That is unfair and tenants perceive it as unfair. The government has committed itself to bringing the social housing stock up to a decent standard in ten years and that should be available whether tenants are in the council sector or in the registered social landlord sector. It's a fair deal that's needed for council tenants. STEPHENS: The government is clearly using its powers to set the agenda, it is creating financial incentives to encourage stock transfers, the big question is could programmes of improvement such as those that are proposed in cities like Glasgow and Birmingham, could these improvements be obtained within the current structure? The answer is almost certainly no. WATSON: There are two by-elections this week in Glasgow, but it's the ballot of tenants next year that is likely to have much wider implications. Their decision on whether to transfer to a new landlord will be watched closely throughout the UK. Only then will we know if we are witnessing the beginning of the end of council housing in Britain.
NB. This transcript was typed from a transcription unit recording and not copied from an original script. Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy.