BBC On The Record - Broadcast: 18.02.01

Film: Paola Buonadonna follows Romano Prodi, President of the European Commission, from Brussels to Britain and puts criticisms of his performance and his vision of Europe's future to him.



PAOLA BUONADONNA: Europe is facing a huge challenge - the EU is accused of being divided and directionless. In the UK many reject further integration. And in many other countries public support for the EU is uncomfortably low. Resolving this crisis of confidence may be impossible. This man chose to accept the mission. Romano Prodi is the head of the Brussels machine - the President of the European Commission. ROMANO PRODI: I am confident that, because of this crisis, because the need of Europe that is so important, will become more clear to citizens. Of course to get more confidence we have to deliver. BUONADONNA: Romano Prodi has been in his job for a year and a half. He's never had an easy time of it - dogged by criticisms of his personal style and his vision right from the start. Now he has to face the fact that while many people in the UK and across Europe remain unconvinced about the European project, for the first time in recent history European leaders too are deeply divided about the direction the EU should take. Last week On the Record followed Romano Prodi as he delivered his State of the Union address to the European Parliament in Strasbourg and travelled to London on a charm offensive. Mr Prodi is ready to take his critics on wherever they come from. Charles Grant, Director of the Centre for European Reform, a Europhile close to Tony Blair. Janet Bush, Director of New Europe, campaigns against the Euro, and further integration. They both have their criticisms of Romano Prodi. CHARLES GRANT: The commission still has huge powers on the single market and competition policy. But I think what it's lost is the ability to set the agenda for the EU overall. JANET BUSH: You get opinion polls saying that opinion about the EU is sliding and Prodi gets in there and says, well, I don't care about that, we have a destination, it's my destination and it's political union, so he's a brave man, but he's desperately out of touch with the way people think. BUONADONNA: The last European summit in Nice should have given Europe a fresh start. The aim was to simplify decision making, preparing the way for more countries to join the Union. The commission needed a success to increase its own credibility. But away from the cameras, there were few smiles, as the talks turned into a battle of narrow national interests, and the commission found itself sidelined. CHARLES GRANT: Some of the key meetings that went on at the summit, President Chirac said he didn't want little bureaucrats like Mr Prodi in the room, so Prodi was told to leave once or twice. And I think that is a reflection of the fact that the Commission was not playing the major role at a summit which it would have done in the days of Jacques Delors. PRODI: Nice showed that you need an honest broker, you know, that doesn't want to show power or to oppress others but just to put things in harmony and to try to make compatible the position of different states, from this point of view, of course, you're helped by the agreement of the states, it's clear. You know the commission has no interest to divide the states and to make them fighting each other you know. BUONADONNA: After the bitter rows of Nice, France and Germany had to make a show of reconciliation. So last month the German Chancellor Gerhard Shroeder and the French President Jacques Chirac staged a friendly encounter over dinner near Strasbourg. But they can't agree on the recipe for the future of Europe. The French are keen to see Europe shaped by alliances between the leading nation states, the so-called inter-governmental method. The Germans want the European Commission and the Parliament to be at the heart of a federal structure. President Chirac and Chancellor Shroeder reportedly enjoyed their dinner here at Chez Philippe - no doubt thanks to the food more than the conversation. This would seem the perfect moment for Tony Blair to try and join the European top table, but it's not that simple. The British Government has never found it easy to work with the French. Nor it is comfortable with the German federal vision of Europe, enshrined in a legally binding constitution. But the European commission likes the German model because it reinforces its central role as the honest broker and the engine for further integration. GRANT: Well, certainly Prodi shares the German view that EU institutions like the Commission should have quite a lot of power and that the governments, the so-called inter-governmental mechanisms, should not take over the EU. But if Prodi wants to influence this debate on the governance of Europe, with his White Paper, he's got to be careful not to just take one particular line. The commission is always most influential when it tries to hold the middle ground and act as a balance between the different viewpoints. PRODI: The Commission is necessary in order that the nation states can express themselves in the new globalisation. If they're not helped to co-operate they will never lead again, you know, only through co-operation we can go back to European leadership - it doesn't mean superstate, it doesn't mean centralising power, I'm against it, I'm for decentralising, but there are things that we have to do together. BUONADONNA: Each year Romano Prodi reports with the European Parliament in Strasbourg on his plans for Europe. The British government is happy that Mr Prodi shares its economic agenda. But it's nervous when he says the EU must be more than a trading bloc and develop into a political entity as many voters are suspicious of giving up more power to the commission and the MEPs. In an ICM opinion poll of one-thousand British people for BBC News Online, fifty-one per cent said they were concerned about closer integration. But Mr Prodi is undeterred. PRODI: If you don't want, you don't integrate. I don't want to oblige anybody and I only ask in Nice, well, if somebody doesn't want to go quick, he may go slow or even stop. If some countries, must be a good number of countries, want to co-operate together in order to have more speed, they can do it, and so I think that to be outside Europe you will be outside, you know, the driving force of history, but it's a choice. BUSH: I don't think that he has public opinion in Europe with him. People are very wedded to their own identities, cultural, their own countries, their own democracies actually; and it will take some time I think for people to want to be part of a political entity called Europe. BUONADONNA: The weekly meeting of the European commission. Mr. Prodi and his nineteen colleagues are keen to lead the agenda on economic reforms - at a summit next month they want to make it easier for people to work wherever they want in the EU. While all countries agree on completing the single market, many including Britain, reject his plea that that has to involve some tax harmonisation. PRODI: The proposals were relating double taxation, were relating fraud fighting, were relating modernisation of the system of added value taxation because of electronic revolution, only that. And these are things that are necessary for the single market and everybody wants that, but I clearly told that if you want to change your income tax you can do it, I don't care about it, nobody cares about it, but you know if you want to use taxation as an indirect way of making competition in the single market I think we have to be worried and please let us judge on facts honestly. BUONADONNA: The President of the Commission has only minutes to spare to catch the Eurostar to London, where he'll be quizzed by some of his harshest critics - British journalists. But there is some good news for Mr. Prodi. MUSIC. The British Government has promised to test whether the conditions to join the Euro are right within the first two years of re-election. While careful not to be seen to interfere with the British debate Mr. Prodi says Britain will lose influence if it doesn't come on board the single currency. PRODI: I don't want to persuade the British people to choose to enter into the Euro. I've only to demonstrate that they've more to lose if they're out and this is a challenge, these are facts will demonstrate it. I'm convinced that to be out you're heavily influenced by Europe and you have no decision power, so it's a net damage to a big country like the UK. BUSH: I don't buy this influence thing and I think that you have to look at the Euro for Britain on its merits. In my view it's a big risk economically and it's worth giving up some influence over some parts of economic policy. BUONADONNA: This week Romano Prodi met Tony Blair for breakfast at Number 10 to discuss next month's European jobs summit. Mr. Prodi was the choice of the Prime Minister because of his moderate, free market approach. But there's a feeling in Downing Street that Mr. Prodi has become over ambitious in other fields - especially on foreign and defence issues. Europe still speaks with two voices on foreign matters - one is Javier Solana, based at the council of ministers, the other is the European Commissioner Chris Patten. Mr. Prodi cannot disguise his ambition to see the commission fully in charge of foreign policy. GRANT: One of the problems that some of the governments have with Prodi is that they think he's gone beyond his remit. For example he has talked about a European Army, he said that Nato should not use depleted uranium shells in the Balkans and he's talked about European Foreign Policy which are not really his core competencies. PRODI: Well I never went out of my competence so it's simply you know their accusations are not true. What I proposed and this proposal, very controversial, but I still stick on it, is that you know the man who has the responsibility for defence, you know that he's now defence and foreign policy, Mr. PESC he's called in the European jargon, that is now outside the Commission, will be part of the Commission in order to co-ordinate better the job. And you know foreign policy is done in many pieces, external aid, common projects in different countries, is made of pure classic foreign policy matters, diplomatic matters and so on, and you can't have a competence in one spot, another competence in another spot, all divided, it's a messy situation. It's clear that you have to be unified and I think that this proposal was proper that has to be carried on. BUONADONNA: It's not often you can accuse Romano Prodi of being underdressed but today his advisers might have suggested a suit of armour. He's on his way to the arena of British Euro-scepticism, the Westminster lobby. Many of the journalists he's about to meet for lunch blame him personally for the direction Europe is taking. So we asked Mr. Prodi what he hopes to achieve by talking to them. PRODI: To demonstrate that Europe is at the service of the citizens, that there are results that cannot be got without Europe, if I do that, I think their confidence will come back. BUONADONNA: In films, the mission is always accomplished at the last minute. In the real world if he wants to be remembered for his role, Romano Prodi still has three years to impose his vision of a stronger commission at the heart of a political Union. But to do that he'll need to win over the sceptics at Westminster, throughout Britain and beyond.
NB. This transcript was typed from a transcription unit recording and not copied from an original script. Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy.