JOHN HUMPHRYS:                    London and Dublin both 
say that the Northern Ireland peace process is moving steadily forwards. 
 There are problems, but they can be sorted out.  Which is fine,  unless 
you happen to be David Trimble, the leader of the Ulster Unionist Party 
and first minister.  With both local elections and a General Election coming 
up he faces a dilemma.  The IRA has not got rid of its weapons.  Many in 
his party say that means he should refuse to stay in government with Sinn 
Fein.  He hasn't got long to decide what to do.  Mr Trimble is in our Belfast 
studio.

                        It is difficult for you 
isn't it Mr Trimble because you've got somehow or another to justify to 
voters at the election, staying in the executive with Sinn Fein without 
the IRA having got rid of any weapons. 

DAVID TRIMBLE:                I think we were all disappointed 
this week that the Republicans didn't come...didn't make more progress. 
 What they did when the Prime Minister was over in terms of saying that 
they'd go and have further discussions with General de Chastelain doesn't 
take us very much further forward and consequently I have not and will 
not remove the sanction that I have imposed on Sinn Fein in terms of baring 
them from attendance at the North South meetings which is quite important 
to them and there's no doubt that that causes them some discomfiture.  
The question we have to consider is whether that is a sufficient sanction 
and whether we wish to, you know, what approach we take with regard to 
the administration.  Now, I don't think that most Unionists want us to 
cut off our nose to spite our face and so I don't think that Unionists 
want to collapse the institutions, they actually think they're a good thing. 
What we can't permit is for the Republicans to think that they can get 
away with thumbing their nose at the agreement and failing to implement 
it.     

HUMPHRYS:                    But if they don't implement 
it in your terms, that is you seem to be saying nonetheless we will stay 
in government with them.  

TRIMBLE:                    Well we may consider what 
other pressures we can bring to bear. Now it's not a question of them failing 
to implement the agreement as I think it, it is a question of the agreement 
itself and the promises they made. Remember, it was last May when they 
promised that they would put their weapons beyond use and they haven't 
yet fulfilled that promise and I think that is a very serious default on 
their part. 

HUMPHRYS:                    What else can you do, 
what are the other options that you can consider at this stage?

TRIMBLE:                    Well we're looking at 
some and I'm not going to discuss them in public in terms of our tactics 
but do bear in mind that the government itself and the Irish government 
in particular have a particular responsibility on this matter and it is 
something that governments themselves should have  brought about. It's 
not my responsibility to keep the paramilitary groups up to the mark and 
make them implement the agreement. It's actually the responsibility of 
the British government and the Irish government and it's to them that we 
look to resolve this issue. 

HUMPHRYS:                    But can I be clear when 
you talk about other options. They do not include the possibility that 
you will collapse the whole thing, that you will pull out of the whole 
thing. 

TRIMBLE:                    I didn't say that John. 
What I said is I don't judge it to be in our interests and we have put 
a tremendous amount of work into this agreement, to implementing this agreement, 
to bringing the institutions into existence and I do think, quite rightly, 
that they wouldn't be there but for us and we know that the people of Northern 
Ireland want them. So I've got to think very carefully about that. But 
at the same time I wouldn't want anybody to think that we are there whatever 
they do and the Republicans can constantly thumb their nose at their obligations, 
break their promises and get away from it. But we are not rushing and it's 
not our priority to bring the institutions down. Our priority is to sustain 
them if that is possible. 

HUMPHRYS:                    Right, but it is possible, 
and I emphasise the word, because you use it yourself, that that might 
happen before the election?

TRIMBLE:                    No, I'm not going to discuss 
that because John, if I answer that question, either way, then people will 
start to read things into it which may not be there.

HUMPHRYS:                    Well, I think they're 
already reading an awful lot.

TRIMBLE:                    Maybe.

HUMPHRYS:                    And what they're reading, 
what they're looking at on this particular page of the book is that here 
is a leader of a party, the First Minister, under enormous pressure from 
his own people, some of whom will be saying to you during the election 
campaign, but look, you and I David, feel as strongly about this as is 
possible, but in all conscience, how can I vote for you in this election, 
for your party, for your candidate, in this election, unless you have made 
it very clear to me that there is something seriously happening here.

TRIMBLE:                    I think what is, you're 
quite right to say that Unionists feel very strongly about the failure 
of Republicans to keep their promises, but they also look for coherent 
policy and something that will achieve results.  And we've demonstrated 
that we can and are bringing pressure to bear in mind, and people are also 
aware of the timescale, the timescale runs to June, and June is when the 
mandate of General de'Chastilain's commission on decommissioning expires. 
 And the General himself has said, that he is prepared to specify a date 
by which decommissioning must begin, if it is to be completed by June, 
and that date obviously must be before June, so there are options there, 
and we will be looking to the governments, and I must say also, to General 
de'Chastilain to see whether they are going to bring sufficient pressure 
to bear on Republicans to force them to keep their promises.

HUMPHRYS:                    Now, force them to keep 
their promises.  You've banned Sinn Fein as you say, from taking part in 
North/South bodies, sorry, I lost you there, I couldn't hear that, ah, 
there we are, I've got you back again now, you're saying are you that you 
will keep that ban until they start talking seriously about decommissioning 
at least.

TRIMBLE:                    They promised a year that 
they would initiate a process that would put their weapons beyond use. 
 Now I'm waiting to see them fulfil that promise.  And we shall look carefully 
at whatever they say, but more significantly we'll look at what they do, 
and I shall maintain that sanction until they do that.  That is what I 
can do, but other people, and I'm looking here to the British Government, 
the Irish government and General de'Chastilain, they can also do things 
to bring pressure to bear, and I look to them to discharge their obligations 
as well.

HUMPHRYS:                    Are you saying that talking 
is enough.  Serious talking on behalf or however you care to define it, 
on behalf of Sinn Fein, the IRA is enough.  

TRIMBLE:                    Well, how can we judge 
where there hasn't been any serious talking, there's only been a few telephone 
calls, and if there was serious talking, how could we judge it other than 
by the results that flow from it.  What they should be doing in talking 
to General de'Chastilain is agreeing a decommissioning scheme, and agreeing 
the procedures under which weapons would be decommissioned.  Now, if they 
do that, then that would be significant progress.

HUMPHRYS:                    Enough, enough progress?

TRIMBLE:                    Well, that's got to be 
part of a process, not just you do that and then you stop. Just as the 
question of future North/South meetings are part of a process, they're 
not a one-off thing.  So the sanction that we have is something that is 
very flexible and can respond to events whether there's progress, or where 
there's a lack of progress.

HUMPHRYS:                    But what I was trying 
to get at there is whether a serious talking, serious in your terms, would 
be enough to get you to lift that ban.

TRIMBLE:                    But what I'm pointing 
out to you is that question of lifting the ban is not a one-off event. 
 It might be lifted once and re-imposed if progress was not sustained. 
 There is a process here.  There's a process in terms of decommissioning, 
there's a process in the terms of the North/South institutions, it's not 
a one-off thing.

HUMPHRYS:                    But it is possible that 
it could be lifted once they start to talk, and then if they don't deliver 
on those conversations, on that negotiation, then it could be re-imposed. 
Is that what you're saying?

TRIMBLE:                    What I'm pointing out 
is that the sanction is flexible and we'll look carefully at what is done 
both with regard to, as you say, lifting it, but also with regard to re-imposing 
it if there isn't a continuation of progress.  So, I mean, beyond that 
John, anything is, everything is hypothetical.

HUMPHRYS:                    But the final card of 
suspension remains in your pack.

TRIMBLE:                    It actually is in Tony 
Blair's pack, not mine, because the power to suspend rests with him, not 
me.

HUMPHRYS:                    But if you say, I want 
no more of this, I'm walking out - that'd be it!

TRIMBLE:                    Well, what I'll say, I'll 
say when I say it, when I consider it to be appropriate to say it, I'm 
just pointing out that the suspension option isn't mine, it's his.

HUMPHRYS:                    But it isn't dead either?

TRIMBLE:                    It's not.

HUMPHRYS:                    David Trimble, thank 
you very much indeed.

TRIMBLE:                    Thank you.