BBC On The Record - Broadcast: 08.04.01

Film: FILM ON PENSIONS. Jonathan Beale looks at the Government's pensions policy.



JONATHAN BEALE: The choice has never been easy whether it's chocolate eggs for Easter or nest eggs for the future. This week the Government hatched another new pension plan. One that it hopes will bring us a more secure retirement as well as helping to ensure its own political success. There are twelve million pensioners in Britain and they're almost twice as likely to vote as those aged between eighteen to twenty-four. In thirty years time the over sixty's will make up a third of the electorate. Increasingly, political parties ignore the grey vote at their peril. So has Labour done enough for those who've already retired - and is it doing enough for those who're now planning their retirement? STEVE WEBB MP: The long term strategy has a fatal flaw. The basic state pension will wither and die. The seventy-five p that we had in this parliament is a taste of things to come. FRANK FIELD MP: I would describe the current lot of initiatives as initiatives taken with the best of motives which will not survive the course. BEALE: In the kitchen of Rococo they aim to leave their customers with a sweeter taste. It's a small company making and selling hand crafted chocolate. Earnings among the ten staff are between ten and twenty thousand pounds. Just the sort of people the government have in mind for its new stakeholder pension: MICHAEL LOCKYER: They are cheap effective solutions to individual pension planning with very, very good low charges dictated by the Government and capped at one percent. BEALE: It may at first appear an attractive proposition. Forty per cent of the population have no pension plans other than what the state will provide. Even the Government admits that its basic pension is not enough to live on. For people like Ruth though the stakeholder scheme has still not whet her appetite. RUTH MORGAN: In my job I'm not on the minimum, I'm above the minimum wage but even so my money is completely taken care of with my every day expenses: the rent, the bills, looking after my child and I would not be in a position to take out a stakeholder pension unfortunately. LOCKYER: People in that sort of income bracket tend to have a lot of other commitments maybe mortgages, children, other expenses and pensions is perhaps on the bottom of the agenda as far as they're concerned. But I think the stakeholder net itself has been cast quite wide and they will be quite attractive to higher earners. They're going be great tax planning vehicles for people who perhaps want to pay into a stakeholder for their children, for their grandchildren, for their wives. BEALE: The challenge for the Government is to get its target group to pour their wages into the new stakeholder pension. Contributions are still meant to be voluntary though it might not turn out as planned. LOCKYER: I think that stakeholder pensions at the moment, it isn't compulsory for employers to contribute, it isn't going to be compulsory for employees to contribute, and I think that at some point in the future the Government may well have to revisit this issue and it might be quite unpopular. I think possibly they may have to insist on compulsion, and it could be that employers will forced to make a contribution into a stakeholder pension on behalf of their employees. BEALE: That's a worrying prospect for people like Chantal who're running a small business on a limited budget. From October companies like hers will be fined if they haven't signed up to a stakeholder scheme. She already feels the Government's burdened her with excessive red tape, and doubts that staff will be enticed with what's on offer. CHANTAL COADY: I think it's extremely unlikely that anyone will be subscribing to the stakeholder pension and from my point of view I hope they don't, because if they do we've got to do the deductions, we've got to administer the whole scheme. BEALE: Even if the Government can win round the sceptics, in the world of pensions there's still a bewildering range of options. The government's promising a new second state pension for those on three to ten thousand pounds. It'll replace the existing state earnings related pension - or SERPS. The stakeholder pension is for the group who earn between ten and twenty thousand pounds. Everyone can already buy a personal pension, but may now wonder whether they're better off investing in a stakeholder. An occupational scheme may still be the best investment - but they're not available to everyone. DAVID WILLETS MP: I'm afraid a lot of companies are closing down their occupational pension schemes for new members and telling people instead you must take out a stakeholder, often with a smaller company contribution than there was before. So the danger with stakeholders is that paradoxically hundreds of thousands of new people take out stakeholders but they're not new pension savers - they're people who end up having a less valuable pension than they would have had otherwise. ADVERTISEMENT: "Scuse me, I'm looking for some help with my pension options." BEALE: The Government's embarked on an expensive advertising campaign to give people advice. Opponents say it shouldn't have confused them in the first place. WILLETS: Being new Labour everything has to be new, everything has to be redesigned, everything has to be renamed and you've got a host of new schemes but the trouble is that especially with pensions what's very important is to have stability. and because they've abolished SERPS and brought in the second state pension instead, because instead of sticking with personal pensions they've had to rename them as stakeholders, because of all this they've generated enormous confusion and uncertainty. BEALE: Confusion is not confined to future pensions policy. Those who've already retired are often baffled by the Government's current initiatives and apparent fondness for form filling. Labour's policy of targeting help towards the poorer pensioners may be noble. But in practice it often involves having to answering pages of questions to prove that a pensioner is on a low or modest income. And perhaps not surprisingly many haven't bothered. STEVE WEBB MP: The government is fond of saying that its strategy is to help the poorest pensioners but in truth the really poorest pensioners in the land are the ones who are entitled to these means testing benefits, but don't claim that entitlement because the system is very complicated, because they don't want actually to fill in long complex intrusive forms. BEALE: Once again the Government's had to turn to advertising to encourage pensioners to apply for its means tested benefit. THORA HURD: Did you know the Government is identifying from its records some people who they think may be entitled to extra money through its minimum income guarantee? BEALE: Half a million haven't claimed. And yet it still plans to introduce more means testing. The Government's targeting those who've already had to break into their savings or who have none at all. The minimum income guarantee ensures the poorest pensioners have at least ninety-two pounds a week. From two-thousand-and-three the Government have promised to bring in a new pensioners tax credit. This is aimed at those with modest savings. The benefit tapers off for those on higher incomes. But there is help too for pensioners regardless of income. Free TV licenses for the over seventy-fives are among a series of one-off payments. There's also a winter fuel allowance now worth two-hundred pounds for the over sixties. For Tina - Rococo's oldest employee - there's a reluctance to go cap in hand to the Government. Like her, all that most pensioners want is a decent basic state pension. TINA LAMBI: Personally I would not ever apply for anything like that because I think it should be given to you without having to fill in forms or asking for it, that's how I feel. RODNEY BICKERSTAFFE: We don't want a pension scheme which is going down and down in value and people being told two things: either you look after yourself in terms of private pension aid and private pension insurance or secondly, well you can have more but you can only have it by jumping through hoops, by filling in forty-page forms, by going through the indignity if you want, the stigma of means testing, that I call parading poverty. BEALE: Ministers hope their long list of initiatives will help eradicate pensioner poverty. But continuing protests by the elderly show that they're not convinced. What they want more than anything else is the guarantee of a decent state pension. And many believe the only way they'll get that is by restoring the link with earnings. BICKERSTAFFE: I think that many people thought that the Labour government was gong to say DNR - do not resuscitate - to the basic state pension. But I think that it's resurrected now, I think the debate is on, I think we've all to play for. And certainly I think the Labour government in the years ahead is going to seriously have to consider that the basic state pension isn't just the foundation, but it's the mainstay. BEALE: None of the main parties at Westminster is offering to deliver the ultimate pensions gift - restoring the link with earnings. Though just before the election Labour is offering a significant rise in the basic pension - a sweetener after last years' miserly offering. WEBB: I think many pensioners do feel let down that when there wasn't an election on all they got was seventy-five p; they are not stupid, they know the five pounds is because there's an election round the corner and they know that once the election is over it will be seventy-five p again. BEALE: Whether that turns out to be true or not, even the Government doesn't claim that the basic state pension will ever be adequate. Critics say nor will the alternatives people will be buying instead. FIELD: Before the end of the next parliament the Government will have to return to pensions reform, and while stakeholder will no doubt be able to be paraded around as increasing the numbers of people with funded pensions - I think we will find, sadly, that the group that most needs coverage from funded pensions are the least likely to have taken out stakeholder - they either aren't interested or much more importantly they haven't got the money to and therefore they won't and therefore the issue of fundamental pension reform will return once again for the next parliament to consider. BEALE: Laying plans for the future is never easy. But the problem for Labour is that its new pensions goodies may have left people even more uncertain as to what the state will provide once they finally retire from work.
NB. This transcript was typed from a transcription unit recording and not copied from an original script. Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy.