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ON THE RECORD
SIR GEORGE GARDINER INTERVIEW
RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION BBC-1 DATE: 9.3.97
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JOHN HUMPHRYS: Now, Sir George you've attacked Mr Major
- his approach to Europe. Isn't the reality, given the divisions in his Party
that it was the only approach he could sensibly have adopted.
SIR GEORGE GARDINER: No, I don't think so. I mean he's been
urged for a very long time by the Party workers in the country, by Members of
Parliament too to come off the fence and proclaim in principle against joining
a Single Currency. He's resolutely refused to do so.
HUMPHRYS: But he's done so because he knows to
have done that would have driven others out of the Party like ...
GARDINER: Well, of course, yes, but they do
represent a minority. I mean what we've seen is the tail really wagging the
dog.
HUMPHRYS: But you talk about him, Mr Major that
is, as not being an instinctive Conservative - very severe words.....
GARDINER: Well, given all the history of the
Conservative Party standing up for Queen and constitution and so on, I do not
think that an instinctive Conservative would ever have considered the
possibility of joining a European Single Currency and putting us in on the fast
track really to a European super-state.
HUMPHRYS: So, why has he done it?
GARDINER: Well, I don't know. He hasn't done it
of course, he's been sitting on the fence over it, and that of course is what
has finally driven me out of the Party.
HUMPHRYS: So, why has he sat on the fence in your
opinion?
GARDINER: Well, obviously because he's under
pressure from the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
HUMPHRYS: Which suggests that he's cowardly.
GARDINER: I wouldn't say that he's cowardly, no.
Ha, ha, I wouldn't say that.
HUMPHRYS What would you say then?
GARDINER: Well, I just think he hasn't really got
an instinctive feeling for what the country requires and what the leadship of
our proud nation requires too.
HUMPHRYS: What you've just done is not going to
help him win the election is it?
GARDINER: Well, I don't know if it makes much
difference really, does it John? I mean, you know as well as I do I find it
very hard to find a Conservative Member of Parliament who actually thinks we're
going to win the next election. I mean John Major might, but I think he's
about the only one. I mean Tory seats are going to go down the pan with an
almighty flush when the election comes, and the writing was on the wall wasn't
it at the Wirral, and Tory back-benchers are by no means illiterate.
HUMPHRYS: But you helped that process along.
GARDINER: I don't think so, but I do hope of
course that I will you know, give a little boost to the Referendum Party
because I think that we do need some in the House of Commons who insist that
the people must be consulted before we know where we are going in our
relationship with the rest of Europe.
HUMPHRYS: Is it too late for Mr Major, for the
Tories, if Mr Major were to change his mind on Europe?.
GARDINER: I don't know, I really don't know, but
he really has painted himself into a corner here, and it would take a big leap
I think to get out of it.
HUMPHRYS: If you're right about him being so out
of touch with the Party, with what the bulk of the Party wants here, how come
you're the only MP deserting?
GARDINER: Well, or course I was really invited to
do so wasn't I......
HUMPHRYS: Well I the others have as well....
GARDINER: Obviously, I mean, I'm a Conservative as
much as I ever was and so I said in that Sunday Times article today, I mean, my
opinions have not changed, I'll be campaigning for exactly the same sort of
things I will be campaigning for if I were the official candidate because even
then I am determined, of course, to make my bull (sic) point, the challenge of
Europe and I've always said that we should have a referendum to decide our
future relationship.
HUMPHRYS: But are there others who share your view
to such an extent that they might contemplate doing what you've just done.
GARDINER: I have no knowledge of that all I can
say is the phone has certainly been buzzing this morning with calls from my
colleagues.
HUMPHRYS: Which colleagues, MPs you mean.
GARDINER: MPs, MP colleagues saying well done
George, you know, the best of luck.
HUMPHRYS: Well done, from other Tory MPS.
GARDINER: Oh yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, but I am
certainly not naming them if you imagine...
HUMPHRYS: But you say several of them.
GARDINER: Yes, oh yes, what five, six, something
like that seven..
HUMPHRYS: And wishing you luck.
GARDINER: Yes, wishing me luck.
HUMPHRYS: Perhaps the usual suspects as we might
say.
GARDINER: I don't know.
HUMPHRYS: If this is a matter of principle, why
did you fight to stay in your constituency, I mean it looks increasingly
doesn't it, like opportunism, your constituency threw you out, you had nowhere
else to go, Goldsmith comes along and says, come on, join us and you say, okay.
GARDINER: Well Goldsmith did not come along and
say join us, it was I who made the overtures actually to Goldsmith.
HUMPHRYS: But after you'd been thrown out by your
own constituency.
GARDINER: Yes, I said I was quite happy, quite
prepared to stand as the official Conservative candidate representing the
policies I've always represented and will be representing in this election.
HUMPHRYS: So therefore it doesn't sound like a
principled stand does it.
GARDINER: Those are principles, they are Tory
principles I've held since I was a small boy.
HUMPHRYS: But you are going to split the vote and
you'll perhaps enable Liberal Democrat or Labour candidate to get in.
GARDINER: Well I suppose Reigate has become a
marginal seat now, but let us fight it out and see what the sixty odd thousand
electors decide.
HUMPHRYS: Sir George Gardiner, thank you very much
indeed.
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