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ON THE RECORD
PETER MANDELSON INTERVIEW
RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION BBC-1 DATE: 11.5.97
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JOHN HUMPHRYS: Mr Mandelson, you want this Labour
Government to operate more effectively than previous ones, is that what's
behind Mr Blair's intention to exercise more control for Number 10?
PETER MANDELSON: I think what's important is that this
Government as it grapples with events day to day and Ministers become absorbed
into the administration of their department, they don't lose sight of the
Government's long-term and strategic objectives. It's very easy, you know, for
Governments to start to drift when they lose sight of what's coming up and for
the long-term objectives to dribble away. Now, we are determined to make sure
that that doesn't happen and if I have a role in this Government it is to look
ahead, I am sort of the Minister for Looking Ahead.
HUMPHRYS: Hence this Strategy Committee that we
read about of the big four - that's Mr Blair, Mr Brown, Mr Prescott and you.
MANDELSON: Mr Blair will be meeting the principal
Secretaries of State at the beginning of each week just to make sure that the
strategic direction of the Government is kept intact but he will do something
else which I think is even more important than that and that is to work
bi-laterally with each department, with each Secretary of State, meeting them
on a regular basis and he's started to do that this last week, first of all
with the health team and then with the education team to set strategic
objectives for them and their departments which conform with the Government's
overall strategy, setting objectives, making sure that those actions and what
is agreed are followed up, that progress is properly monitored so that we do
not lose sight of where we are going, what we need to do, in order to bring
about the radical changes that we want to usher in to this country.
HUMPHRYS: So what's the point of that Strategic
Committee because I left out Mr Cook's name, I think, when I read out the list
of names - what's the point of that then?
MANDELSON: The point of that is to make sure that
at the heart of Government the principal Secretaries of State know the Prime
Minister's mind, that he knows their mind and they are all marching in step and
I think it's an extremely good way to start each week in Government.
HUMPHRYS: But it's more than that, isn't it? I
mean you've talked about - you've written about - a more formalised
strengthening of the centre of Government by the means of formulating and
driving forward strategy for the Government as a whole. That's the role that
you are going to be filling, you are instrumental in that aren't you?
MANDELSON: I am going to be helping that, yes.
HUMPHRYS: And what we are going to see develop,
therefore, as a result of all of these changes and many more which we will come
onto, is there a more loosely - not exactly, obviously - but a more
presidential form of Government?
MANDELSON: I wouldn't describe it in that way.
Certainly you are going to have a strong centre of Government.
HUMPHRYS: Stronger - than it has been in the past.
MANDELSON: Well, that wouldn't be difficult, would
it?
HUMPHRYS: In the past Local Governments.
MANDELSON: I think that what we have seen over the
last two years and it is certainly something that has struck me and other
Ministers who have come into Whitehall to start working for the first time this
week, is the sense in which Government has drifted over the last two or so
years, the way in which something approaching a paralysis has enveloped the
Government over the last two years before the Election. Departments are almost
shut down, decisions not being made. There's a chronic drift setting in. Now
we want to stop that in its tracks and the way to do that is, yes, to have a
strong centre to the Government, yes, to make sure that we have a strong
collective will which embraces the Government as a whole and harnesses the
energies and the attributes and skills of all those who make up the various
departments right across Whitehall. But it's not the same, John, as trying to
impose some central control on the Government. It is, as I say, to create and
harness a collective will in the Government to make sure that that programme,
that manifesto to which we were all signed up and came into office to
implement, remains the driving force which carries us through over the next
five years.
HUMPHRYS: But the worry that some people have is
that it will be precisely that, that that is the danger that you will end up
exercising what you describe as this strong central control. Perhaps even
..(talking together)...because we have a particular system that we have had for
a very long time and people are nervous about change.
MANDELSON: Well, I don't think it's a danger that
you have a Government at long last that knows its own mind, that has a very
strong unity of purpose and that you have coming from the centre of the
Government a real sense of purpose and direction at long last. I mean, there
is so much change that needs to be carried through that you have to have
clearly in your mind all the time the mind focused on those strategic
objectives - how you are going to carry through that radical change bit by bit,
step by step, always in the knowledge that each action that you take, each
building block you put in place is all designed to fulfil your long-term
strategic objectives in Government.
HUMPHRYS: Well let's have a look at some of the
actions that have already been taken. It's clearly early days yet but these
are the reasons why people might begin to worry a little bit about the way
things are going, about the power that's going to be seized, if you like,
centrally. Now, Parliamentary Questions - PMQs - Mr Blair, the Prime Minister,
told Parliament about that change - didn't consult, didn't consult with the
party leaders - told them it was going to happen and in the words of Tam
Dalyell that smacked the Government by edict.
MANDELSON: Yes he did do it. And he's a strong
leader. I mean he knows his own mind and that's how you bring about change in
Government, not by dithering, not by spending-
HUMPHRYS: Or consulting?
MANDELSON: -weeks and months talking, discussing
endlessly about decisions which frankly are pretty obvious and pretty clear
cut. Indeed John Major, you know, in his response to the Prime Minister's
announcement didn't disagree with what Mr Blair was saying.
HUMPHRYS: Didn't like the way it was done!
MANDELSON: Didn't like the way it was done, or that
was a point that he made. But it's well known that John Major believed long
ago - formed the opinion long ago - that Prime Minister's Questions was a
bearpit. It didn't confer any sort of dignity or sense or much sort of
practical scrutiny of the executive when Parliament came twice a week to do
this, but also cut dramatically into the time of the Prime Minister on both
Tuesday and Thursday and reduced the Prime Minister's effectiveness in his
role.
HUMPHRYS: Right. But, you do-
MANDELSON: Now, that was John Major's conclusion I
believe, when he was Prime Minister, which I think is the reason why he is not
opposed in principle to changes that the new Prime Minister has introduced.
HUMPHRYS: But there is a difference between
dithering and consulting isn't there?
MANDELSON: Well, yes, of course the Prime Minister
consults.
HUMPHRYS: Well, he didn't on this one.
MANDELSON: Well, he did consult his colleagues. He
consulted. And, he consulted through telephoning both Mr Major and Mr Ashdown.
HUMPHRYS: After he'd made the decision.
MANDELSON: Yes, but it was the Government's.
HUMPHRYS: What sort of consultation is that?
Here's what I'm gonna do, now tell what you think. It doesn't matter what you
think because I've done it!
MANDELSON: It was the Government's decision to
take. No, Parliament decides that it allocates time every day between
two-thirty and three-thirty to questioning members of the Government. Now who
the Government puts up within that hour is the Government's decision.
HUMPHRYS: Indeed. But I mean Parliament wasn't
consulted in this either. Put aside the Party - Parliament wasn't consulted.
MANDELSON: But, John, it's not a matter for
Parliament who the Government chooses to put up to answer questions. Each hour
that day Parliament decides to allocate to that.
HUMPHRYS: An institution has developed. We've got
used to - the nation has got used to the idea that twice a week the Prime
Minister's going to stand there and be questioned. Now that's going to change.
MANDELSON: John, how long has Parliament existed
for?
HUMPHRYS: But, alright, this has only been for
thirty odd years.
MANDELSON: Yeah.
HUMPHRYS: I accept that this is a very-
MANDELSON: Prime Minister's Questions in its
present format has existed only since nineteen-sixty-one.
HUMPHRYS: Yes, I know.
MANDELSON: Now, are you saying that Parliament -
everything that we do, every procedure, every dot and comma of those archaic
practices have to remain intact for all time?
HUMPHRYS: Okay. Take your point.
MANDELSON: I say No. And this Government says No.
We are a Party that is interested and committed to change in Parliament as well
as outside.
HUMPHRYS: Let's look at things that have been
around for much longer than thirty odd years then, and things that you want to
change - the Constitutional changes you want to make. Now, can you guarantee
as the Speaker apparently wants you to do that those changes will be discussed
on the floor of the House of Commons, and I'm talking about Parliament for
Scotland, Assembly for Wales, abolition of the House of Lords, phasing out the
House of Lords and so on, will be discussed not in some Committee Room
upstairs, where they can dealt with swiftly, but on the floor of the House of
Commons, where of course it's going to take a long time, but nonetheless?
MANDELSON: Well, exactly how the legislation is
debated and considered by Parliament is a matter that Parliament has yet to
agree. All I can say to you is that there will be full, extensive debate of
all the key elements and all the main principles, and all the main changes that
the Government will be proposing. Parliament will have its right to debate, to
deliberate and to scrutinise that legislation in conformity with the way in
which it does its business in the standing orders of the House of Commons. I
give you that undertaking.
HUMPHRYS: You give me that undertaking. You're
not giving an undertaking that it will take place on the floor of the House of
Commons?
MANDELSON: I can't prescribe today exactly how that
deliberation will take place, but I can assure you that Parliament's right to
debate, to scrutinise, will be upheld and respected by the Government.
HUMPHRYS: But you can understand people's worries
on this can't you? Particularly given what you said earlier in this
interview. You know, we decide, we affirm, we're clear, we know what we want
to do, we're not going to dither, we know what's that about.
MANDELSON: Well, we were elected with a very clear
manifesto and with a very clear programme John, and with a very strong mandate
from the public. And I think people are just enormously relieved that they
have at last a Government that does know its own mind and has started in the
first week in Office getting under way the important start that we have made.
For example, in Education and schools, I was very pleased to see - I'm not
going to forshadow the Bills that are going to be announced in the Queen's
Speech, but we know that the immediate priorities for the government are to
drive up standards in our schools and to reduce class sizes in our primary
schools. But we can do much more than that and I was very pleased that the
Schools Minister straight away this week announced that his Department would be
identifying failing schools and identifying the action needed to tackle those
failing schools. In Health too action has been immediately taken. Let me make
this point because I think it's important that people understand quite what
we've taken on and what we've started on this week. The Bills that are going
to be introduced following the Queen's Speech on Health are very very
important ones, but already Frank Dobson the Health Secretary has taken action
to free up resources within the National Health Service so that more money can
be devoted to patient care, so that we can get more people treated in the
National Health Service. But importantly too, and this is very crucial for the
long-term, appointing a new Minister for Public Health, really getting to grips
with and tackling those inequalities that exist in our society, at the root of
which are poor public health I think is very important, if we're not simply
going to use the National Health Service as a corrective, but to use measures
to prevent ill-health setting in in the first place. Now these are radical
challenges. Jack Straw's battle plan to tackle crime.
HUMPHRYS: Right, let's come up to some of those,
in a minute, if I may.
MANDELSON: These are all very very impressive, and
they presage very radical changes which are addressing directly the real needs
and concerns of the people of this country.
HUMPHRYS: Right. Let me come back to some of
those in a minute, but let's stay with the theme for the moment of the way you
are exercising - going to exercise power. The role of MPs - the role of Labour
MPs in particular. Now, during the Election campaign they were pretty much
told what to do. They were given a line and they had to stay with that line.
Fair enough people will say, you had the discipline and it helped you to win
the Election.
MANDELSON: I don't think you understand the
Labour Party.
HUMPHRYS: Well, I've spoken to an awful lot of
members of the Labour Party and MPs and candidates, and it's perfectly clear
what happened during that campaign. The question now is whether that is going
to continue during this Government, and that worries some MPs. We heard some
of them talking about it in that film, being treated like monkeys on a stick.
MANDELSON: MPs are not being treated like monkeys
on sticks and you're taking out of context actually one flippant remark made
by one Labour Member of Parliament. (INTERRUPTION) But I think you're missing
the point here. I think you're missing the point here. I think, you're
missing a very, very important point, which is that the Labour Party has
changed. People who are coming into Parliament for the first time are New
Labour people - modernising people - who are fully committed to the direction
in which Tony Blair is leading the Labour Party.
They haven't been selected by the Party
grass roots on a One Member, One Vote basis, incidentally, in order to come
into Parliament, in order to frustrate Tony Blair; they haven't come into
Parliament in order to impede or present barriers to the implementation of our
manifesto. That manifesto was signed up to by the entire Party membership,
including MPs on whom it is binding. People want to see our radical manifesto
implemented. Not sidetracked, not buried, not sort of mired in day to day
events. They want a Government which is going to address the long-term needs
of our country, equipping our economy for the future and making sure that we
have many more successes-
HUMPHRYS: Alright.
MANDELSON: -in our country.
HUMPHRYS: Please don't give me another list, just
at the moment because I do want to return to that.
MANDELSON: Well, oh, well, you say you don't want a
list. What you're saying-
HUMPHRYS: ...just a minute ago and I'm trying to
keep a particular theme, for a moment.
MANDELSON: -what you're saying-But, the theme that
you're pursuing is this, John. That the-And, it was ... by the film, that
we've just seen. That the Labour Party's manifesto was in some way stood
slight, or weak or didn't embody radical proposals.
HUMPHRYS: I've not even made reference to that,
yet!
MANDELSON: No, no, your film did - your film did,
your film did -and I think it was wrong because you see-
HUMPHRYS: Well, you've told us throughout the
campaign that you had a modest manifesto-
MANDELSON: No, no, we didn't actually.
HUMPHRYS: -that you were presenting to us. You
said over and over again: this Party is not gonna make a whole string of
promises like previous Parties in previous Elections and then be called to
account by the Electorate. We're going to tell you what we realistically
believe we can achieve.
MANDELSON: Absolutely. And, that remains the case.
HUMPHRYS: Right.
MANDELSON: But, what we also told you is that what
we did promise will be deliverable and will be delivered and that, secondly, we
told you that the changes that we want to bring about in the economy, in
Health, in Education, in tackling crime and taking people off Benefit and
putting them in work, the solutions to those problems are not, simply, spending
more and taxing more.
HUMPHRYS: Now, look. Alright, but-
MANDELSON: And, I think, it's very important for
people to realise that when people-when they sort of call for bold measures, or
radical solutions, they actually see in what we're doing very much more
complex, much harder solutions which have to go across Departments in
Whitehall, which go to the heart of these problems-
HUMPHRYS: OK.
MANDELSON: -in the long-term and not simply
overnight quick fix solutions.
HUMPHRYS: And, what I'm asking is-
MANDELSON: -which are brought about by simply
turning on a spending tax and-
HUMPHRYS: Alright. Well, I-
MANDELSON: -taxing people. That is old Labour. It
is not New Labour and-
HUMPHRYS: OK. And, what I-
MANDELSON: -we're not going to govern the country
on that basis.
HUMPHRYS: Right. And, what I'm asking you is now
that we have New Labour and no longer old Labour how - now that you're in power
- you're going to deliver all that through the mechanism of Parliament and all
the rest of it?
MANDELSON: Of course, we are.
HUMPHRYS: Now, you seem-
MANDELSON: Yeah, how else would we do it?
HUMPHRYS: Let me get in a question, if I may - if
I may. Now, the question is this: you seem to be saying, in that answer, that
you regard MPs not so much as representatives but as delegates, sent to
Parliament in order to carry out the wishes of the Leadership? Is that right?
MANDELSON: Labour Members of Parliament have been
elected in order to carry out the manifesto for which we have received an
overwhelming mandate from the public.
HUMPHRYS: So, they're not, in that sense, then,
representatives, then, of their constituencies in the Burkian sense, for
instance. They're there to do what the Leadership tells them to do?
MANDELSON: No. They're there to do what the public
have elected them to do. That's the difference, John. You see, you're trying
to drive a wedge and I understand why you're doing so because it's the sort of
line of argument.
HUMPHRYS: Because it's a very, very important
issue - that's why!
MANDELSON: It's a bit of patter that you sort of-
you know, pulled out of your film and I understand why you're doing it.
HUMPHRYS: On the contrary.
MANDELSON: I understand why you're doing it but the
point I think - the bore point - is this that we had a very full
manifesto, that was published over a year ago. It was very thoroughly worked
out. We had very detailed plans, which in our first week in Office we have
started to implement. It was a manifesto that was backed by ninety-five per
cent of our Party membership. It is binding on each candidate, who stood for
the Labour Party in this Election. Of course, each of those candidates who's
become a Member of Parlimament represents their Constituency and defends and
stands up for their constituents' interests. Of course, everyone does that.
I champion the interests of my
constituency in Hartlepool and I do so very vigorously and very proudly but I
also know that what the people of Hartlepool need, like the rest of the
country, are important measures, described in our manifesto, which I am
committed as a member of the Government, just as other Labour MPs are who
support the Government, to introducing and that is what we're going to do over
the next five years.
HUMPHRYS: All right. Well, let's look at
something that wasn't in the manifesto - at least, not in the manifesto in the
way it has just been announced and that's the reform- the way the Bank of
England is going to conduct its..the power to-
MANDELSON: I'm sorry-
HUMPHRYS: Well?
MANDELSON: It was foreshadowed in the manifesto.
HUMPHRYS: Ah! Well, part of it was foreshadowed
but not what we actually saw. I happen to have the manifesto here with me, as
it happens - or, at least a bit of the manifesto.
MANDELSON: Well, do you want to read it out?
HUMPHRYS: Yeah, absolutely. "New monetary" - what
you talked about was a new, monetary policy committee to decide on the advice
which the Bank of England should give to the Chancellor. Now, what Mr Browne
told us-
MANDELSON: Are you going to read out the entire
manifesto, or would that take too long?
HUMPHRYS: Well, I'm afraid just a little bit too
long - yeah, absolutely - absolutely.
MANDELSON: Because it's there, John.
HUMPHRYS: No, it isn't.
MANDELSON: Well, OK.
HUMPHRYS: I do promise you that I read the entire
thing - I do my homework.
MANDELSON: You ask your question.
HUMPHRYS: And, the question is - thank you - and
the question is: why if you knew that that is what you were going to do before
you went to the Electorate, because you announced it - What? Four days after
you got into power, or whatever it was. Why didn't you tell us because we
were voters - what you were going to do? We could have, then, discussed it
amongst ourselves. We could have asked you questions about it, when we were
interviewing you. Instead, we got bounced into it.
MANDELSON: No, you didn't get bounced in it you see
what you had in the Manifesto and what you had in speeches made both by Tony
Blair and Gordon Brown over the last year, eighteen months, is a determination
by an incoming Labour Government to ensure that the workings of monetary policy
are conducted on a more transparent and open basis, building on the changes
that Mr Clarke himself introduced as Chancellor of the Exchequer but also to
free the setting of interest rates from short term political manipulation. Now
the only way to do that, to carry out that reform in addition to setting up the
monetary policy, a committee that is now being done, is to give the Bank of
England that latitude and that independence to free the setting of interest
rates from that short-term political manipulation which we think is undesirable
and we're doing it because we believe that these changes will promote economic
stability because it will confer a more longterm thinking and emphasis in the
conduct of monetary policy and economic management which will enable us to lift
our economy onto a higher and sustainable growth path which will generate
prosperity for all. That's why we are doing it, that's why we are doing it,
you are not right in saying...
HUMPHRYS: But you didn't tell us you were going to
do it.
MANDELSON: You are not right in saying that we did
not presage that, those changes, in announcements that we made before the
election.
HUMPHRYS: Mr Blair, the Prime Minister, described
it subsequently as "the biggest step in economic policy-making in Britain since
World War 2". Now there was not the mildest hint in any interviews that were
done before the election - certainly not in this document - that what you were
going to do was the biggest step in economic policy making since World War 2.
MANDELSON: I am sorry that I haven't persuaded you
that we did foreshadow these changes both in our manifesto and the speeches
that Mr Blair and Gordon Brown made, but I know those speeches and I know that
manifesto very well indeed - I know them inside out - and we did foreshadow
those changes. Of course, the way in which we announced them had to take
account of the extreme market sensitivity of the changes and announcements
that...of course that was the case and we approached it with the utmost
diligence and responsibility, as you would expect from us. But it is simply
untrue to say that nobody knew in general terms what we wanted to do and the
changes that we wanted to make.
HUMPHRYS: All right, let's move ahead a bit then
because you've given us some hints during this interview of the kinds of things
that you intend to do. Let's look at the long-term aims - and I stress the
long-term aims of this Government - how are you going to exercise the power
that you have? How should we judge the success or the failure of this
Government over the long-term, over the five years? Have you got a set of
benchmarks, a set of - I think in business they call it "key performance
indicators"?
MANDELSON: Yes, I think we have. I think that you
should judge this Government in five or so years' time by the greater number of
more successful world class firms and companies in Britain and that requires a
modern partnership between Government and business. Secondly, I think you
should judge it by a transformed first class education system in this country.
Thirdly, I think you should judge it by a welfare system that has work and the
restoration of the work ethic as its centrepiece, which tackles the issues of
lone parents, of the unemployed, but also long-term care and the elderly. I
think you should judge it by a political system that is stronger, healthier, in
which Government has been devolved and decision making more decentralised, and
lastly I think you should judge it by a relationship between this country and
the European Union in which we are leading and shaping the future course in the
European Union rather than following lamely behind what others want to do.
HUMPHRYS: Let's try and be a little bit more
specific, then. Welfare reforms, poverty. Will the gap between rich and poor
narrow under five years of Labour, after five years of Labour Government, will
it be narrower?
MANDELSON: I believe that will happen, we want it
to happen, it is a very central goal.
HUMPHRYS: And if it doesn't, will you have failed?
MANDELSON; We have lived in a fractured society in
which too many people for too long have been shut out of society, denied the
opportunities and the life chances that they deserve and to which they are
entitled. You have seen already today, Gordon Brown foreshadowing the Summer
Budget in which I believe he is going to be introducing the most significant
welfare changes that we have seen in our country for 50 years. It's right that
work and the work ethic are now put at the heart of welfare reform. It's right
that people are employed - young people who have never had work, people who are
older who have not had jobs for one or two years should be given the chance
again to put into society and take from it and I think you will see in the
coming budget a set of measures which are going to usher in very radical
long-term changes to our welfare system in this country.
HUMPHRYS: All of which were in the manifesto.
Some, obviously you have just talked about - youth unemployment, of course -
but everything that was in, everything we have heard about...
MANDELSON: Action to tackle unemployment, action to
enable lone mothers and single parents to get off welfare and into work,
tackling the root causes of inequality which exist in poor public health,
action to combat homelessness and poor housing conditions - all these things
were contained in our manifesto and we will make a start. We are not going to
wave a magic wand, we are not going to bring these changes in and create a sort
of nirvana overnight, but making the start, making a real difference to
people's lives, governing for the whole nation once again, is what this
Government is about and which is what is going to drive Gordon Brown's budget
in the summer.
HUMPHRYS: So just to go back to that question
then, you will have failed as a Government if the gap between rich and poor at
the end of five years has not narrowed.
MANDELSON: We will be very, very disappointed if
that gap has not narrowed.
HUMPHRYS: Not quite the same.
MANDELSON: Well we will be very disappointed, of
course. Of course we will be disappointed because we have set very high and
ambitious targets for us but I believe that we can do it, that we can do it not
simply by increasing welfare benefits and handouts for people but by tackling
the root causes of deprivation and inequality.
HUMPHRYS: No more beggars in shops, sleeping in
shop doorways after five years of Labour Government.
MANDELSON: I don't believe that we need in this
country to tolerate and to see young people or people of any age sleeping in
doorways, we don't need to. We can take the action, it's open to Government to
do so if it has the resolve to do so, we haven't see that over the last
eighteen years, we'll see it now in Tony Blair's Government.
HUMPHRYS: So you'll have failed if you are still
seeing people sleeping in shop doorways?
MANDELSON: I will be very disappointed indeed if we
see the same numbers of young people sleeping rough without a chance, without
an opportunity to make the best of themselves in London or anywhere else in the
country for that matter.
HUMPHRYS: And health, something you didn't put
into that list incidentally that...a list of ....
MANDELSON: I mentioned public health, I think it's
very important.
HUMPHRYS: ...health you mentioned certainly but
will waiting lists have come down, and will the time we wait,we will have to
wait for a hospital bed have been shorter by the end of five years and again,
if not, will you have failed?
MANDELSON: Frank Dobson has already taken action
this week to start freeing up resources in the National Health Service that
will enable us to treat a hundred thousand more people, more patients in the
National Health Service as a start but it won't end there, I mean, the changes
that we've got to make in the health service are really in two areas, first of
all undoing the enormous waste and red tape of the internal market and that
will require legislation and legislation will be introduced to enable us to do
that but we've got to end the two tier health service that has been created by
the outgoing administration, we've got to change the way in which health care
is delivered, we've got to make sure too that GPs remain in the driving seat of
health care as people pass from primary to secondary care, but we've also very
importantly indeed, got to tackle the causes of ill-health in the first place
which is why I think it's very important to note the Prime Minister has
appointed Tessa Jowell as the country's first Minister for Public Health,so we
will be taking a great deal of initiative in order to root out those causes of
ill-health.
HUMPHRYS: So a final thought then. You used the
word disappointed several times in those answers, but you have these
performance indicators. If you have not achieved those things that you now say
you want to achieve you will have failed as a government will you?
MANDELSON: We will go to the country in five years'
time I believe, with real substantial changes and improvements to our country
and to people's lives. The economic opportunity in employment they have. The
health care that is available to them, available to all, not better for some
and worse for others. The educational opportunity that they have, their
ability to live not in fear any more from crime, but to walk in safety as well
as safe in their houses too, but also citizens of a country, of a nation, an
independent, proud nation in Britain which once again can hold its head high in
Europe and the rest of the world, to start leading and influencing and shaping
events rather than following behind others taking the initiative. That's what
I want to see, and I'm very confident indeed that whilst we keep our eyes
focussed on those long-term objectives day to day yes, putting those building
blocks in places, making the appreciable changes that we can over the range of
policy, but making sure that we keep our eyes focussed on those long-terms
goals. You will see a different Britain in five years - you'll see a Britain
that has been changed by a new Labour Government worthy of being re-elected in
five years' time.
HUMPHRYS: Peter Mandelson, thank you very much.
..oOOOOo..
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