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COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT; BECAUSE OF THE POSSIBILITY OF MIS-HEARING AND
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ON THE RECORD
RHODRI MORGAN INTERVIEW
RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION: BBC ONE DATE: 7.2.99
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JOHN HUMPHRYS: Tony Blair wants Alun Michael to be the
first Prime Minister of Wales and until yesterday it seemed he might get his
way. Mr Michael's opponent is the somewhat maverick Rhodri Morgan who is more
popular in Wales than Mr Michael but most people assume that the way the
election for the leadership is being fought, would give the job ultimately to
Mr Michael. Well all that has now unravelled with the result of a ballot in
the biggest union UNISON, which went for Mr Morgan by more than three to one.
So Mr Morgan's a pretty confident man this morning and as for Mr Blair, well
what does he have to fear from a Morgan victory. Mr Morgan is in our Bangor
studio, good morning to you.
RHODRI MORGAN: Good morning.
HUMPHRYS: Are you starting to count your
chickens?
MORGAN: Oh not at all, no I'm not going to do
what the Welsh team did yesterday and throw it all away in the last twenty
minutes. No, we're going to re-double our efforts now. This provides us with
a very very good platform for trying to, you know, re-double our efforts in
canvassing the Labour Party membership because they obviously have one third of
the electoral college and in those unions which haven't yet completed their
balloting procedures where they are doing branch ballot such as the General and
Municipal and ASTOR, the shop workers union.
HUMPHRYS: But you reckon you'll do it, I
mean, you are...
MORGAN: Oh yes, I mean, I think it can be done
so long as we don't relax and we don't get complacent and we push on now over
the last fortnight to victory on February 20th.
HUMPHRYS: But those other two unions, if
the ballot is held the way that the previous two were held, are not going to go
for you, are they?
MORGAN: Well, no branch ballots is better, you
see it falls half way in between what the AWEU did where they had seventy
people deciding on behalf of almost seventy thousand and the T&G, my own union,
which has been decided by sixteen people, but there is still some chance the
T&G might change its mind, especially in the light of the ballot come poll that
was carried out by Harris Research on Channel Four which..of about seven work
places where the T&G has all the work force throughout Wales over the past
fortnight and it's no secret that the results of that poll gave me seventy two/
twenty eight, which is almost identical to the UNISON ballot of the full postal
ballot of all their membership yesterday and I think you can say that what the
UNISON result does yesterday is to confirm what all independent observers have
been saying that I've got a lead of something like three to one over Alun
Michael, whether you are talking about union members, Labour members, Labour
voters or the population generally in the whole of Wales.
HUMPHRYS: You don't think that as the big
vote comes closer, people might start saying well, it looks as if Rhodri might
win. In that case it would be a bit of a kick in the teeth for Tony Blair, I'm
not sure I'd want to inflict that on Tony Blair because after all he's the
Prime Minister,
leader of our Party, so we'll go for Alun Michael.
MORGAN: No, I don't think so because there have
been three visits by the Prime Minister, I don't think they've been
particularly helpful to me, they haven't been particularly helpful to Alun
Michael because I think that it is now the settled will of the people of Wales
that they want me as the leader of the Welsh Assembly and that, to use an old
phrase of John Smith's and really the outside factors, outside influence
doesn't really seem to change that at all and that's been the case since
November 1st, when this whole contest started after the sudden disappearance of
Ron Davies from the leadership, well, I mean, there was an opinion poll carried
out in the first week of November, that gave me a four to one lead over Alun
Michael and I think roughly over three months and one week since then, I've
still got that lead, a very large lead over Alun amongst the grassroots of the
Party, the unions and the population generally.
HUMPHRYS: But people might start saying:
can he work with Tony Blair, Tony Blair has made it as clear as he possibly can
that he doesn't want Rhodri Morgan in that job. The idea of the Prime Minister,
of Tony Blair having do deal with you as a sort of equal, 'My God' they'll say.
What are we going to do about that, it could be very damaging and it could,
couldn't it.
MORGAN: Not at all, no I look forward very much
to working closely with Tony Blair with him as Prime Minister of Great Britain
and me as leader of the Welsh Assembly for many years to come..
HUMPHRYS: Difficult to work closely with
him after all of this surely?
MORGAN: No, no, it's very possible. I worked
very closely with him as a member of his team when he first got into the Shadow
Cabinet in 1988...
HUMPHRYS: A long time ago....
MORGAN: ....as one of his junior spokesmen
until 1990, yes it is a long time ago but I've never had a quarrel with him,
I'm not running as an anti-Blair candidate and I've made that absolutely clear
and Tony Blair on his visits to Wales, when this has been put to him by the
media, you know what have you got against Rhodri Morgan, can you work with
Rhodri Morgan, he has said very plainly he will get behind whoever Labour
elects by the electoral college method on February 20th before the election,
because we've got to make sure that we get an outright Labour victory and also
after the election when we will be pushing the devolution project ahead.
HUMPHRYS: Tell me this, if, and I know
you think, you passionately believe that you've got the people of Wales behind
you, because of that, if, because of the way the election is being held, Alun
Michael actually wins, then you go to the assembly, the members of the
assembly of course have to choose. I mean all you will be if you win this
election, or Alun Michael wins the election, is the leader of the Labour Party
in Wales, you've yet to become as it were the first minister, the first
secretary of the Assembly. They would have to vote for you. Now, would you
then, at that stage, stand on the Assembly floor and say: 'don't vote for him,
although he's the leader of the party, the settled will of the people of Wales
was that I should be the first secretary.....the first Prime Minister'. Would
you do that?
MORGAN: I don't think I should cross that
bridge until I come to it...
HUMPHRYS: You're not decided then?
MORGAN: I have no thoughts about that issue at
all, I think I'm going to win on February 20th, so why should I speculate on
what might happen after the election on May 6th...
HUMPHRYS: Because you know what politics
is about and you're a tough old bird in that respect.
MORGAN: Well that may be, I think I'm actually
going to win on February 20th, so that's an entirely academic proposition,
I've seen it discussed, I've seen it more discussed about Ron Davies than about
me in one of the Sunday papers this morning which I found very interesting on
the basis that Alun might actually not get elected because of the vagaries of
the list system and that Ron would then want to stand. But I am not worried
about this at all. You mustn't take youreye off the ball as Wales did yesterday
- I'm reading the political pages today much more than the sports pages..
HUMPHRYS: Don't keep reminding us...
MORGAN: ..unusually for me on a Sunday and I'm
sure that you are as well..
HUMPHRYS: ...well - please don't keep
reminding us about that victory for Scotland yesterday, I've heard it often
enough. I'm going to have to end it there I'm afraid, Rhodri Morgan thanks very
much indeed for joining us this morning.
MORGAN: Thank you.
HUMPHRYS: And that's it for this week.
Until the same time next week, good afternoon.
...oooOooo...
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