Interview with WILLIAM HAGUE, Leader of the Conservative Party.




 
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 ON THE RECORD
                               WILLIAM HAGUE INTERVIEW                   

                           
 
RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION: BBC ONE                          DATE:    14.3.99

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JOHN HUMPHRYS:            But first, the Conservative Party.  Some say 
"crisis" is the best word to describe the condition it is in.  There is no sign of 
it recovering from the hammering it got at the last election.  Indeed the opinion 
polls suggest it's still bouncing along the bottom.  Well now William Hague has said 
there must be a break with the past.  The party has to get away from its old thinking 
and its old agenda and Mr Hague is with me. 

                        In what way, Mr Hague, will the 
new agenda differ from the old?

WILLIAM HAGUE:                Well it will be much more about quality 
of life for a start. What we had to respond to in the 1980s was a severe economic 
crisis in this country. What people wanted us to respond to was that and we did so. 
And we did so successfully and I think we're respected for having done that. But 
as we go around listening to people around the country now, they don't say: there 
is a British economic disease that you have to deal with, they say there are other 
things that governments have to take on. And so the Conservative Party will have 
to develop an agenda in which quantity of money is part of quality of life but it's 
not only about quantity of money. 

HUMPHRYS:                    So Thatcherism was right for its 
time but you now need a new prescription, as it were.

HAGUE:                    Yes that's right, parties have to 
move on, parties have to let go of the past and move on. Where would we have been 
if the party in 1951 had fought the election on the same basis as 1945. It  didn't, 
something happened in between, there was a Labour government that made a lot of  
changes, well the Conservative Party had to acknowledge that and move on. Where would 
we have been if Margaret Thatcher had fought the '79 election on the same basis as 
Ted Heath fought the '74 election. Parties have to move on to a new agenda and the 
sooner they realise that the better, they can either go on for years thinking about 
it and agonising about it, or they can say: right, we know this is what we always 
have to do when we hit a period like this, let's get on and do it.  That's what I 
was saying to the party yesterday. 

HUMPHRYS:                    So the end of the Thatcher era, 
the start of a new era, that's it in a nutshell. 

HAGUE:                    Well it is just a case of moving on. 
It's not a case of disowning what Margaret Thatcher did, we transformed the position 
of this country. Margaret Thatcher and John Major between them completely transformed 
the economic position of this country. But it won't be the same platform at the next 
election as the platform that they fought elections on. There are new challenges 
and there are things that are changing, whether we like it or not.  There's going 
to be a Scottish Parliament whether we like it or not, a Welsh Assembly whether we 
like it or not.  The House of Lords is changing. So there is a whole new constitutional 
agenda which may not have been our original choice but now we have to adapt to that. 


HUMPHRYS:                    And you're talking about new values.

HAGUE:                    I'm talking about an agenda which 
supports values, which is about values. People are worried about crime, people are 
worried about drug abuse, people are worried about the condition of inner city housing 
estates. They are still worried about the quality of public services, they are worried 
about public transport because they see motorists being persecuted by the government 
without anything being put in its place. So you will find a Conservative Party that 
is much more interested in things like public transport than it ever appeared to 
be before. 

HUMPHRYS:                    So from being a party that seemed 
to be, to many people anyway, to be the hard hearted party that cared a bit more 
perhaps about cash than about caring.  You want to be seen to be more interested 
in caring than cash. 

HAGUE:                    I want to broaden it. In order to 
care you have got to think about cash. But it's always been the case and I want to 
 make it much more obvious and really bring it to life that people in the Conservative 
Party were also interested in caring.  In fact most of our members around the country 
are the same people who are in the voluntary organisations and the charities and 
spend a great deal of their time actually caring for people.

HUMPHRYS:                    But the emphasis was different 
wasn't it. 

HAGUE:                    The emphasis may have been different, 
well now I am going to give it a new emphasis. I believe in our public services, 
I went to a comprehensive school myself, I've always used the National Health Service 
myself. I don't have to take lessons from Labour politicians about the importance 
of good public services. The Conservative Party is going to be for those things but 
we'll have to produce some innovative new ideas and better ideas than the actually 
rather old ones being pursued by the Labour Party in order to demonstrate that that 
is the case.  That is a big policy challenge but I am saying to the party now we 
are going to get on with it. 

HUMPHRYS:                    And you are saying that because 
that is now where we are heading, that's the direction we are now going in, some 
of our priorities in terms of our approach to those policies have to change. 

HAGUE:                     Some of our priorities will be different. 
It may be that a future Conservative Government that we at a future election will 
say there are same things on which we want to spend more money, which we won't have 
been associated with in the past. We'll say we believe in higher spending on some 
things provided we can find the money elsewhere. So the Conservative Party won't 
always be the party that wants to spend less on everything. It will be a party that 
will believe in the lowest possible taxation. But it wont' be a party that says you've 
always got to try to spend as little as possible, perhaps we need to invest more 
in some things. 

HUMPHRYS:                    Champion the public services.

HAGUE:                    Champion the public services and make 
sure that more of the money that goes into them actually reaches the actual teaching 
and actually reaches the actual care for patients. You know we've got a government 
that talks about these things at the moment but they are wasting millions on grammar 
school  ballots, they're wasting tens of millions on re-organising GPs and as a result 
whatever their good intentions, it's not working very well.  The waiting list to 
be on the waiting list in the Health Service is increasing dramatically. Class sizes 
are still going up in some parts of the country. This isn't what people were led 
to expect by the Labour Party. So I think there is going to be quite a disappointment 
about the capacity of politicians to deal with these problems in the next few years 
and our party has got to respond to that. So, economics is important and we will 
still be about sound economics but we will be about a lot more than sound economics 
at the same time.

HUMPHRYS:                    And it isn't just a question, frankly, 
from what you were saying of redistributing the money that is available, tinkering 
at the edges and saying instead of spending this fiver on that thing we'll spend 
it on that thing instead.  What you're saying is that it may well mean, will mean, 
more commitment, more resources for certain things like health and education?

Hague:                        Well it may do but it's not 
just about money.....

HUMPHRYS:                    No... no I take your point but 
it is about money as well as about other things......

HAGUE:                    Political decisions are always partly 
about money, so it is partly about that and it will be partly be about money and 
economics in other ways and we will have to sort out the mess in savings that this 
government has created.  We will have to produce new policies on savings because 
we have an emerging disaster in this country on that and the over taxation of pension 
funds and savings that this government have  introduced.  We'll have to produce new 
policies on tuition fees because the government have made a terrible hash on that. 
 We'll have to produce new policies on welfare reform because they said they were 
going to do that and actually they're not coming up with any radical welfare reform. 
 So we will have policies to improve taxation, to reduce public spending where it 
needs to be reduced but we'll be doing that in order to provide good public services 
in other ways and our agenda will not just be about money, it's also about people 
making their own decisions, it's about getting rid of red tape and regulations, it's 
about local government being able to make decisions for itself.  So it's not just 
an economics and money agenda any more.

HUMPHRYS:                    But it's money where the problem 
lay in the past.  I know you don't want to talk about the past at great length and 
neither do I but your problem was seen to be, rightly or wrongly and let's not argue 
about that, was seen to be that you were more concerned with, for instance cutting 
a penny off income tax than you were about spending a bit more money on health and 
education.  That was the perception that dogged you for a very long time, you were 
seen to be uncaring and that was part of the reason for that - that's what you want 
to get away from?

HAGUE:                    Well I certainly want to get away 
from that but it's not just a case of perceptions......

HUMPHRYS:                    No... no absolutely.....

HAGUE:                    It's not just a case of presentation, 
it means there will be actual policies that will be different and these beliefs that 
I am setting out will give rise to innovative policies to changes in policy, we've 
already had some examples of them, we're in favour of having a mayor for London, 
we would have been against it in the past and we're in favour of stronger local government......

HUMPHRYS:                    Can I come to the constitution 
in a moment because I do want to deal with that but can I just stay with the question 
of money for a moment?  It might be that you would go into the next election, I'm 
not asking you to give us your manifesto at this precise moment because you've got 
to have a bit more time to think about it but it might be that you would go into 
the next election pledged to spending more money on health for instance than this 
government, than the Labour party.

HAGUE:                    Well it might be, we don't know the 
position that we'll arrive in at the time.  It may be that we will have much more 
innovative ideas than them on how to enlarge the resources of the health service 
one way or another by better co-operation between the health service and the independent 
sector.  There may be......

HUMPHRYS:                    But you wouldn't rule it out.....?

HAGUE:                    I'm not ruling anything out about 
our policies for the next election on the public services,  I want the party to think, 
 my whole point is that it's free to think and I want to have other innovative policies 
for instance on education, let's have teachers able to lease a school and run it 
for themselves, let's have genuinely innovative policies about giving choice and 
diversity in education that can help people in all parts of the country whatever 
their standard of living and whether it be the better off or worse off parts of the 
country.  I was in East Harlem a few weeks ago and saw there what  some radical education 
policies could do having four schools in one building all competing with each other, 
all with different time tables, all with a different emphasis but an extraordinary 
success story of the poorest district of New York now having schools where people 
from the better off districts want to go into it - they call it a miracle in East 
Harlem.  I want to see miracles in parts of this country.  So that illustrates my 
point that it's not just about money it is about innovative ideas and I think the 
current government have fallen into the trap in the public services of thinking that 
it is either all about money or all about regulation.  If you put more money into 
it and you regulate it and make rules standards will rise.  That isn't actually what 
happens.

HUMPHRYS:                    But there is a change of approach 
here quite clearly a change of approach in the new, may I call you new Tory?  I don't 
know.  We've got new Labour perhaps new Tory?

HAGUE:                    I don't like the expression new Tory 
because it suggests we're doing exactly the same as new Labour and actually this 
is not the same as  the process  New Labour went through.  They had to say black 
was white.  They had to say everything they'd said in the past was rubbish, which 
it was so that went down pretty well with the country.  This is not the same.  I'm 
not saying everything we've done in the past.....

HUMPHRYS:                    No indeed.... But you are saying 
on this crucially important area or one of the crucially important areas of spending 
on the public services that where you have been seen in the past to be the party 
that  would rather save a  penny in income taxes than spend a bit more on the health 
service don't think that of us in future, that may not be the case.

HAGUE:                    That may not be the case.  We will 
have to chose our priorities if we're going to suggest spending more money in one 
area we will have to show where we're going to save it in others but we will be ready 
to make a radical reassessment of priorities and we will be ready to come forward 
with policies which are genuinely innovative and not just the same old solutions 
tried out again which is what we're getting from the current government.

HUMPHRYS:                    So it's not just tax cutting at 
any cost that's the point I'm making really?

HAGUE                    Well I believe in people paying lower 
taxes......

HUMPHRYS:                    Sure - we all do......

HAGUE:                    But I believe in that not because 
I want to take money away from something but because it's part of people having independence 
and being able to establish their own quality of life but what we have to do is to 
deliver a lower tax burden with very good public services and there are examples 
around the world of politicians doing that......

HUMPHRYS:                    But sometimes they conflict and 
when they conflict you might well say in future,  'let's spend that extra penny rather 
than cut it off income tax', that's really what I'm saying.

HAGUE:                    Yes, I'm saying there will be circumstances 
in the future where the Conservatives say - 'We'll have to spend more on that because 
the country needs more investment in that'.
        
                            
HUMPHRYS:                    Would you have chopped the penny 
off last time. In this last budget or would you have spent it on health or education?

HAGUE:                    I'm always going to be in favour or 
- I'm always going to vote in favour in the House of Commons of a Government reducing 
the burden of Income Tax, but what it should be doing accompanying that is actually 
reducing the total of public spending.  What they're doing is spending the money 
on the wrong things, and people are saying, where is the money going to.  It's going 
into hugely escalating welfare  spending under the current government and that is 
what they said they were going to tackle, that they're failing to tackle  and it's 
by tackling that that you can deliver lower taxes and better public services.

HUMPHRYS:                            The Constitution, you touched 
on it earlier.   You have accepted that you got things wrong in the past, some things 
wrong in the past.  Devolution is one of those things is it, or do you still think 
that the day Scotland voted for devolution, was,  I think that was the quote, was 
a sad day for Scotland.  Is that still your view?

HAGUE:                    Well, I think we were right to oppose 
it, and this is a good example actually of an argument  that we fought very hard 
where we campaigned for what we believed, but now we have to let go of it because 
the world has changed, and so really what I'm saying on this is, whether we were 
right or wrong about the Scottish parliament it's irrelevant now what we said before. 
 We are going to have to have a new agenda and we are facing a government that is 
having half-baked reform of the constitution.  The government are a bit like somebody 
who comes into your house, knocks down one end of it, puts up a bit of timber and 
a tarpaulin over it and says: Right, how do you like your new house?  Now that is 
what they've done with the Scottish parliament and the Welsh assembly.  They think 
that's the end of it but it's not the end of it at all, because they have now unbalanced 
the British constitution.  The voters of England are going to want to have a fair 
say, and the Government's reaction seems to be that of the ostrich with its head 
straight into the sand : oh no, don't worry about the voters of England, the so-called 
West Lothian question.  We will have to respond to that, and so my party must now 
become a party that actually advocates constitutional change, and that is going to 
have to give the voters of England a fair say, and that was one of the commitments 
that I made yesterday.

HUMPHRYS:                    But you are not embracing it, you 
are accepting it reluctantly as opposed to saying, yes, the people of Scotland have 
voted for it, in the case of Scotland, therefore we think that is right and we are 
absolutely committed to it.  It's much more subtle than that?

HAGUE:                    I say they voted for it and now we 
have to make a success of it.  Now you can call that (INTERRUPTION)   .. you can 
call that embracing it or not, but well not reluctant because it's irrelevant now 
whether it's reluctant or not, we have to make a success of it.   If we don't make 
a success of the Scottish parliament within the United Kingdom the United Kingdom 
is going to be destroyed, so the Conservative Party has got to join in making a success 
of the Scottish parliament.  We have to prove ourselves wrong in a way, we have to 
prove somehow that you can hang the United Kingdom together with a Scottish parliament 
in it, because the Scottish parliament is not going to go away.  In order to do that 
we have to play an active part in the Scottish parliament and be enthusiastic about 
what it can achieve for the people of Scotland, but we also have to redress the balance 
in the Constitution as a whole, and we will produce in the next few weeks our proposals 
on that, which will almost certainly involve changing the voting position of Scottish 
Members of Parliament at Westminster in some way...

HUMPHRYS:                    So they wouldn't be able to come 
down here and vote on our things because we can't go up there and vote on there's 
as it were.

HAGUE:                    Basically yes, and I'll come to the 
details of that in due course when we make our announcement, but we have to respond 
to that, and I don't think people in Scotland can object to that.  And if we don't 
respond to it we will see the rise of English nationalism that really would destroy 
the United Kingdom.  We're seeing a
 a bit of it already, and there is nothing wrong with a legitimate English political 
conscientiousness, but I don't want to see it become English nationalism.

HUMPHRYS:                    There would have to be a pretty 
substantial bit of re-balancing in that case then wouldn't it, something like an 
English parliament perhaps?

HAGUE:                    Well, not necessarily.  We'll come 
to the specific proposals...

HUMPHRYS:                     But that isn't something that 
you - I know you're not going to give me the details because you haven't published 
them, but that isn't something - and English parliament isn't something that is ruled 
out when you sit down as you are at the moment and think about what you're going 
to do next.

HAGUE:                    It's one of the logical options people 
have to look at and really the point I'm making is the Conservative Party now has 
to move on to those things - we've not been associated with constitutional change 
before, and we wouldn't have chosen this, to go into constitutional change.  But 
that's now where the country has had it.   Somebody is going to have to finish the 
job that the Labour think they can do half of.  Somebody is going to have to try 
to make sense of what they're doing with the second Chamber of Parliament, starting 
out on the reform of the House of Lords without having a clue what they want to turn 
it into except into some sort of neutered body that will do the bidding of the Prime 
Minister of the day, which seems to be what they are really after.  I say that's 
not good enough.  We wouldn't have started blundering about with the House of Lords 
at this point, but if we're going to change it we must get a stronger second chamber 
out of it, we must get a stronger parliament out of it that is better equipped to 
hold the government of they day to account and that means reform of the House of 
Commons as well as of the House of Lords.

HUMPHRYS:                    So to deal with the second chamber 
first, does stronger mean as far as you're concerned, a more legitimate second chamber. 
 That means obviously a degree of election.  You're electing members, some or all 
of the members, or does it mean a more powerful one?

HAGUE:                    It many mean both.  It certainly means 
a more powerful one.   If we are going to change the second Chamber of Parliament 
then I believe we want to finish up with a chamber more readily able to hold the 
government of the day to account.  We have a Government at the moment that is diminishing 
parliament, that tries to use it as little as possible, that makes announcements 
outside parliament, that tries to take as little notice as possible of parliament. 
 I want to make sure that the second chamber of parliament can give greater scrutiny 
to what the government of the day are doing, and that the House of Commons can do 
so as well.

HUMPHRYS:                    Now that does make the House of 
Commons weaker though wouldn't it.  Inevitably, I mean if you have a more powerful 
second chamber overseeing the things that the first chamber does.......

HAGUE:                    No, because that is not a zero sum 
game, you can actually enhance the power of the legislature vis-a-vis the executive, 
and you can actually have a stronger parliament as a whole, and so you can end up 
with a stronger second chamber and a stronger lower chamber.

HUMPHRYS:                    If you became Prime Minister you 
and your cabinet would have relative to parliament less power in future.  That's 
the way you would like to see it.?

HAGUE:                     Yes. I would want to put in place 
in the early stages of a new government, changes to the way Parliament operates and 
gives Parliament greater power, expertise and authority and I am going to set up 
the policy making work in a few weeks time which will fashion the precise ideas by 
which we will do that.  It is vital, I think, for democracy in this country that 
we strengthen representative democracy. That's one of the reasons I'm in favour of 
local government being stronger rather than weaker..

HUMPHRYS:                    Not another reform of local government?

HAGUE:                    Not..

HUMPHRYS:                    Please.

HAGUE:                    I do not mean a reform of the structure 
of local government, which I think we should be fed up with reforming and which can 
waste a lot of money and I'm definitely not going to be embarking on that. But it 
does mean incrementally giving more authority and freedom to local government. It 
does mean strengthening representative... our principal representative institution 
 which is parliament.  At the moment democracy is being weakened by the functions 
and authority of parliament being taken away, that needs to be turned round and to 
do it successfully you have to do it in the early days of a new government. 

HUMPHRYS:                    Right, can we turn to another part 
of your speech. You talked about the family, you are going to reintroduce into the 
tax and benefits systems, I'm quoting, an explicit and special recognition of marriage. 
So, unmarried couples will be excluded therefore. 

HAGUE:                    Yes, if you have an explicit recognition 
of marriage,  it applies to people who are married. And I think that is very important. 
I think it is a con to say that a Budget is for the family to destroy the last recognition 
of marriage in a tax and benefits system, which is what Gordon Brown set about doing 
this week.  Successful marriages are an important part of families, an important 
component of  having successful and stable families in the country. And yet he seems 
to think you can just cast all that aside and say the Budget is for families in other 
ways, although a lot of it wasn't very specific about how it would help families. 
 Well I think we will need to change that and we will need to do better not only 
than this government, but better than our last government about reinforcing the importance 
of marriage. 

HUMPHRYS:                    Can I give you two quotes, first 
one: "We've allowed...." (this from your speech) "We've allowed a left-wing liberal 
consensus to emerge that says that marriage doesn't matter, that society should be 
neutral about the kind of way people would lead their lives" quote one.  Quote two, 
this is from an interview in this studio I think it was just before you became the 
Leader of the Party "I am not going to preach to the public about moral values." 
     So now something has changed in that time. Is it that you have got married? 
- Is that what has happened. 

HAGUE:                    It encourages me to believe that marriage 
is a good thing. Well, no, actually it's - nothing has changed. 

HUMPHRYS:                    Well yes, on the one hand you were 
being neutral, on the one hand you oppose neutrality, on the other hand you were 
being neutral. 

HAGUE:                    The important thing about this is 
not to be absolutist about it. I believe a country to have a stable, successful society 
needs a large proportion of stable and successful marriages. I believe the state 
should do what it can to help that, although it can't absolutely control it.  But 
I am not saying everybody has got to get married. We have got to respect and understand 
the situations of people who prefer to live in a different way who don't want to 
get marriage, or whose marriages fail.  Everybody has seen it in their own families. 
So I am not saying everybody has got to get married. I am not going to fall into 
the trap of saying we are in favour of marriage in such a way that every time somebody 
in my party does something inconsistent with marriage it's an embarrassment to the 
whole policy. The policy is not that everybody has got to get married and be married 
and have a successful marriage. The policy is that the state should send out the 
signals and send out whatever help it can to people who want to make a success of 
being married. 

HUMPHRYS:                    When you talk about sending out 
signals, does it every worry you that the signals we send out now, according to some 
people in your own party, deliver the wrong message to youngsters. We saw the Royal 
College of Nursing this week advocating that school nurses should be able to prescribe 
the Morning After Pill to eleven year olds. Does that sort of thing worry you?

HAGUE:                     Yes these things do worry me actually. 
There needs to be good sex education but sometimes we do send out the wrong signals 
and a government that says marriage is no different from anything else is sending 
out the wrong signal to the country. Thankfully governments aren't powerful enough 
to destroy the institution of marriage and that is one of the mercies in this whole 
thing. It will persist - most young people today still aspire to be married and to 
make a success of it. 

HUMPHRYS:                    Alright. Inclusivity - including 
everybody - what you are saying to your party is we have a new agenda. That means 
that you must have within your party MPs who are more representative of society than 
some of those you have now. What you don't want is an elitist  party that stands 
only for the few. And yet, the way things are going in your party at the moment, 
is that it is going to continue to be just that isn't it, how are you going to change 
that?

HAGUE:                    Well we've started making the change 
and I recognise that we've got to make more of a change. We're not going to do it 
through quotas and shortlists. I don't believe in all-women shortlists which they 
had in the Labour Party for a time in the last Parliament, I think that's patronising 
for women. I think it often produces the wrong candidate. I do want to see, for instance, 
more women succeeding on merit in the party, my party, and becoming candidates, and 
becoming senior figures in the party. To do that I have to bring them in and I've...

HUMPHRYS:                    You've also got to change things 
within your own party haven't you. 

HAGUE:                    A bit of that too.

HUMPHRYS:                 Because we saw that very bizarre business 
this week of one of your women candidates being asked whether - because she's an 
actress  - whether she'd starred in a porn film.  Bizarre sort of stuff isn't it. 


HAGUE:                    We have to change some attitudes within 
the party, although it's not always..sometimes these things get exaggerated but we 
do have to change attitudes within the party and we do have to bring in more people 
and that is why now we are going out to look for candidates as well - I'm not just 
sitting in Central Office, saying: anybody who wants to be a candidate roll up and 
be interviewed. I'm sending people out to look for good candidates. Particularly 
among young talented women who can come into the party and make a success.

HUMPHRYS:                    But they'd want to feel that they 
were welcome and you say you don't want all-women shortlists, fine but one woman 
on every shortlist perhaps. I mean that wouldn't exactly be radical in this day and 
age would it. 

HAGUE:                    I want them to succeed on merit and 
that is what I am setting out to do..

HUMPHRYS:                    But your constituencies aren't 
selecting women, that's one of the problems isn't it.  I mean merit or no if you're 
telling me that.... If we take a typical constituency there is not a single woman 
who on merit should be chosen - that's a bit odd.

HAGUE:                    No well wait a minute, we've only 
had one or two selections so far (both speaking at once)... we've had two by elections 
in Conservative seats in this parliament and in one case a woman was chosen as the 
candidate - great, that's good.  Now I want to see that happening more often.  We're 
getting more varied people, getting a wider spread of people standing in council 
elections.  In these local elections which take place in six or seven weeks' time 
we will have first of all more candidates than we had four years ago but we will 
also have younger candidates, candidates who are more broadly representative of their 
communities than they were four years ago so it takes time but you have to start 
at that level and we have started at that level, there are new people coming into 
the party.  You said in your introduction there was no sign of recovery of the Conservative 
Party.....

HUMPHRYS:                    Oh two by election results........

HAGUE:                    Actually the membership is going up 
for the first time, I don't think the membership of any other party is going up. 
 We're winning seats all the time in council elections, of course we'll see on May 
sixth whether that happens in a big way but we're seeing it every week in by elections. 
 The party has actually started a recovery but now we're at the point where we say 
- now we break free we develop the new policies and we can get some positive enthusiasm 
not just the absence of hostility.

HUMPHRYS:                    Inclusivity means also including 
people on the different policies that divide them at the moment.  Europe, letting 
candidates speak their mind for instance about the Euro.  Now what if your local 
associations start to deselect candidates, people like David Curry and Ian Taylor 
who take an entirely different view from you, from your party policy on the Euro. 
 What will you say to them to those constituencies?

HAGUE:                    Constituencies are always free to 
chose the candidate they want to chose......

HUMPHRYS:                    You won't lean on them, you won't 
set a lead?

HAGUE:                    I'm not going to lean on them to deselect 
anybody, equally they are free to chose their own candidates but I do not want to 
see members of parliament such as the ones you mention driven out of the Conservative 
Party, excluded from the Conservative Party.  Those people are Conservatives and 
the Conservative Party is going to remain a broad church.  There will not be one 
hundred per cent agreement on European policy in any party in the country and there 
never will be in  hundreds of  years because any group of people, get together any 
group of people in any room in the country and you'll find some disagreement on this 
and  people are allowed to be Conservatives without agreeing with one hundred per 
cent of the policies.  The party's policy on this is clear and it's not going to 
change.

HUMPHRYS:                    So you've done a sort of,  signed 
a kind of truce have you with Messrs. Heseltine and Clarke?

HAGUE:                    I've not signed anything...I know 
you don't mean that.. but there is no formal truce of any kind but I think there 
is a mutual respect that I say it doesn't stop people being a Conservative because 
they take a different view on one policy and they recognise that I have resolved 
what the policy of the party is going to be at the next election.  I've had a ballot 
of the entire membership which gave emphatic support to the policy and that policy 
will be clearly expressed in the forthcoming elections in fact the Conservative Party 
will be the only party that stands for being in Europe but not run by Europe and 
I think that will be a big advantage.

HUMPHRYS:                    So you would expect Messrs. Heseltine 
and Clarke amongst others to vote with you as John Major said he was going to do 
this morning on the Euro?

HAGUE:                    I expect them to support official 
Conservative candidates in the European elections......

HUMPHRYS:                    And if they don't?

HAGUE:                    Well that's a very hypothetical question 
because they've given every indication that they will do so and I think that will 
be true of all Conservative members of parliament, we're not at the point of a referendum 
yet so I respect people with a difference of view but be under no doubt about it 
we have sorted out our policy on Europe, it's very clear, it's not going to change, 
it represents the majority view of the people of this country and that's where I'm 
going to stand.

HUMPHRYS:                    So does that mean the Euro is not 
going to be a major player..... is going to be a major player in the European elections 
campaign?

HAGUE:                    I think it will be an important issue 
in that election.  I don't want it to be the only issue because we also have a positive 
vision of Europe about bringing in the Eastern European countries, about completing 
the single market, free trade with the rest of the world, we have got a lot to propose 
about the European Union as well as some things to oppose.  So it's not just about 
the Euro.  But the Prime Minister has now elevated the importance of the Euro as 
an issue, he has in effect committed us to going into it as soon as possible whatever 
the consequences, he has nailed his colours to that mast so that makes it an important 
issue.

HUMPHRYS:                    Is that in spite of what Michael 
Heseltine has said which is that it's not an issue?

HAGUE:                    Well it is an issue........ we can't 
avoid it being an issue.....

HUMPHRYS:                    Well that's what he said.... (both 
speaking at once)  He said it was irrelevant.......

HAGUE:                    I'm sure interviewers like yourself 
will make sure it's an issue.  You're going to ask me - it is an issue, it is an 
issue......  but it is one of a series of issues in the European elections and the 
Conservative party will, as I say, we're only party that stands for being in Europe 
but not taken over by Europe.

HUMPHRYS:                    William Hague, than you very much 
indeed.

HAGUE:                    Thank you very much.



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