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ON THE RECORD
JOHN ALDERDICE INTV
RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION BBC-1 DATE 17.1.93
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JONATHAN DIMBLEBY: Dr Alderdice, you talk about reaching
the edge of the abyss what precisely are you talking about?
JOHN ALDERDICE: Well when the talks between the four
Northern Ireland parties and the British and Irish Government's broke down last
year it wasn't because they ran out of time it was because there wasn't enough
flexibility to reach an honourable compromise and that was somewhat of a morale
boost to the IRA, who are very worried about the possibility of political
settlement, but it also encouraged Loyalist paramilitaries to believe the
Democratic politics wasn't going to deliver in their eyes and therefore, they
are prepared, I believe well equipped and organised unfortunately, to embark on
a thoroughly unpleasant and very wicked campaign against Catholics and others.
DIMBLEBY: You mean more than what we know already
of sectarian killings, you are talking about more than that?
ALDERDICE: Yes I am because I think that there is
clear evidence that they are well organised, well structured, well equipped and
indeed, I warned last year privately the Irish Government to prepare themselves
for attacks on the Republic of Ireland.
DIMBLEBY: Are you saying that you really believe
that they are going to be using more powerful weapons than they've used now,
that they are going to be bombing and doing that in the South?
ALDERDICE: Yes I think that's a very real
risk and, of course, we've already seen that the ferocity of sectarian
attacks against Catholics, which is a particuarly odious and futile approach to
this whole wretched ..whole wretched events...it's really becoming quite
serious and I'm not at all sure the people in London and Dublin quite realise
that.
DIMBLEBY: Well, certainly your tone is very
different from that of the Secretary of State who has made cautiously
optimistic noises, he's been saying to the IRA lay down the weapons,
demonstrate beyond per adventure that violence is dead and join the process
which could bring about a peaceful solution.
ALDERDICE: There is not a shred of evidence at all
that that's what's going to happen and unfortunately, what does seem to have
happened is that what we warned the Unionists that if they didn't move long ago
to quickly remove alienation of Nationalists, they would become more extreme in
their demands, that's clear from the talks that the SDLP no longer are
interested in power sharing or even the Anglo-Irish Agreement as presently
structured, the British Government by taking a neutral position is actually
moving Nationalists to a more extreme position and there is no evidence at all
that the IRA is prepared to lay down its arms, on the contrary, it seems
much more likely to embark on increased attacks on economic targets in Britain.
DIMBLEBY: You also say in this letter that we
referred to in the film, you seem to be saying that Britain has a hidden agenda
to pull the troops out of Northern Ireland, what makes you say that, that's an
extraordinary charge to make is it not?
ALDERDICE: Well I don't think it is extraordinary
at all, I mean, obviously the Labour Party has made quite clear for a long time
that it would like to see Northern Ireland leave the United Kingdom through the
front door, all I am saying is it seems to me that the Tory Party is now seeing
the same kind of direction over perhaps a longer timescale and through the back
door, but essentially, Sir Patrick Mayhew may have a different timescale in
view, but that he sees his job as relatively similar to that of his colleague
Chris Patten in Hong Kong. It won't be done in an open way, but it seems to me
that the lack of commitment that there is can only be judged in that fashion.
DIMBLEBY: What evidence do you have for that?
ALDERDICE: Well it's my experience of the British
government during the recent talks, the way they responded after the talks and
very particularly the tone of the Secretary of State's comments in his recent
Colraine (phon) speech. It clearly indicated that the British Government was
in a position of neutrality as far as the Union of Northern Ireland with Great
Britain is concerned and that the...
DIMBLEBY: But the classical position of the
British Government is that it is up to the people of Northern Ireland to decide
were there a majority for the Republic, so be it, so long as the majority for
the Union remains, that's the situation which will be enforced and supported?
ALDERDICE: Yes indeed, but any Nationalist in
Northern Ireland or indeed, in the island of Ireland who takes a less
Nationalist position than the British Government is immediately dead in the
water, so when the British Government takes a neutral position, it
automatically forces the SDLP and others to take a position which says we won't
accept Northern Ireland remaining in the United Kingdom, we want joint
sovereignty at least and that probably is a transition of arrangements.
DIMBLEBY: Are you in effect saying that you think
by saying what he says to the IRA, stop the fighting and then demonstrate that
you can join a political process he is actually aiding and abetting the IRA?
ALDERDICE: No, I'm not saying something of that
kind, but I am saying that the kind of warnings that we've been making to
Unionists over the years, that if the issue is not addressed quickly and very
directly, that we would find a situation where Nationalists became more extreme
with the British Government, indeed, people throughout the rest of the United
Kingdom would tire of the situation and tragically, of course, we also find a
Dublin Government that whilst it speaks about generosity, when people went to
Dublin was not at all generous, it all tends to suggest that political
progress is in considerable difficulties and that leaves uncertainty,
instability and a likelihood of an increase by the men of violence in their
tactics.
DIMBLEBY: Dr. Alderdice, thank you very much for
talking to me.
ALDERDICE: Thank you.
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