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ON THE RECORD
JACK CUNNINGHAM INTERVIEW ONE
RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION BBC-1 DATE: 2.5.93
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JONATHAN DIMBLEBY: The British government is evidently
extremely cautious about the Athens deal and making no comment until after the
meeting this evening between the Secretary of State, Warren Christopher and the
Prime Minister but with us now from Newcastle is the Shadow Foreign Secretary,
Jack Cunningham.
Mr Cunningham, you've just heard this
conversation, how optimistic are you about the prospects of the deal holding?
JACK CUNNINGHAM MP: It is first of all, good news and I
warmly congratulate David Owen on his dogged persistence in working for all
three parties to sign the peace plan. What we now need is a comprehensive and
enduring ceasefire and I believe Mr Nahas is right to be cautious about that,
to be guarded about it, I believe the United Nations Security Council should
still meet. I think the blockade of Serbia should continue and I think an
ultimatum about air power should be issued to ensure that the peace plan is
buttressed by a comprehensive ceasefire and in those circumstances the United
Nations, perhaps using NATO, can put troops in on the ground to enforce it...
sorry to police it and ensure that the area is demilitarised.
DIMBLEBY: Mr Cunningham, one of the things that I
heard David Owen saying in that press conference that we showed a little bit
earlier was almost pleaing for not talking about force now, this was a time to
talk about peace not to keep up the prospect of military options.
CUNNINGHAM: Yes, I heard that too and I must say
that I generally support David Owen's analysis, I have done in the past because
I think he has by far the best understanding and analysis, grasp of the
circumstances on the ground but we have a lot of experience now of ceasefires
being agreed and falling apart. We have a lot of experience of the Bosnian
Serb leadership in particular apparently agreement to something and then
nothing happening or the situation deteriorating. So from where we look now, I
think it's the wrong time to say that we can relax pressure either on Serbia or
the Bosnian Serbs.
DIMBLEBY: We'll come back to that later but if it
appears to hold, if the Bosnian Serb parliament endorses, there is an enormous
policing operation that begins by the United Nations forces which includes
British troops. What is the Labour Party's view about how swiftly now we
should be preparing to get to those troops in there?
CUNNINGHAM: As quickly as possible, consistent with
the recognition that we have an enduring ceasefire, is the answer to that
Jonathan. I don't think that we're likely to see widespread deployment of
troops under United Nations control if fighting is still going on.
DIMBLEBY: What constitutes an enduring peace
ceasefire? I mean ...
CUNNINGHAM: Well I think the military people and the
UN people on the ground are the best people and best placed to reach a
judgement about that. I think it's very difficult sitting in a television
studio...
DIMBLEBY: Absolutely.
CUNNINGHAM: ... to answer that question.
DIMBLEBY: Now just on your point then of the
ultimatum which you would keep running on the two track system. What is your
ultimatum and when does it come into force if you were in control?
CUNNINGHAM: My request and the statement by John
Smith is that the United Nations Security Council should issue the ultimatum
and clearly time should be given to ensure that they are complying with it and
upholding the provisions of the peace plan and the ceasefire. These are not
judgements for us to make, these are judgements for, first of all, the Security
Council and the United Nations commanders on the ground to give evidence in
support of or otherwise. And then I would like to see the widespread
involvement of UN controlled troops probably through NATO to police the peace
plan to see demilitarisation taking place. To see that people are safe and
that the whole thing is going to endure.
DIMBLEBY: Jack Cunningham, thank you. I hope to
come back to you later in the programme to discuss what might have to happen if
the ceasefire breaks down - the military option. Thank you.
...oooOooo...
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ON THE RECORD
JACK CUNNINGHAM INTERVIEW TWO
RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION BBC-1 DATE: 2.5.93
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JONATHAN DIMBLEBY: Mr Cunningham, you've been listening to
what Dr Owen said and very forcibly at the end saying the bombers are behind
the curve, stop talking that kind of stuff. What's your...do you sense
that he is a man who knows that we in fact going to get peace because of the
enormous pressures that are being brought to bear now on the Bosnian Serbs?
JACK CUNNINGHAM MP: I concede straight away that he's much
closer to the deal than anyone else and has a much greater understanding, as I
said earlier in my comments but, you know, I'm not talking about bombing, I was
talking about some international agreement in the Security Council about a
ultimatum on air strikes. I don't think there's ever been any case for bombing
happening immediately or for it to be widespread and continuous but I think the
threat of military action endorsed by the Security Council has had an impact on
the circumstances together with the isolation, the economic isolation of Serbia
and I don't think this is the appropriate moment to remove that potential
threat.
DIMBLEBY: So you would you like John Major and
Warren Christopher meeting this evening to come out saying that they reserve
whatever options they've agreed although you'd be opposed to, for instance,
arming the Muslims, which doesn't seem to be at the moment on the agenda
obviously, in any case. But you would want them to come out very clearly
saying that they as leading figures in the Security Council keep the military
option open.
CUNNINGHAM: Yes, I would agree with that, until such
time as we're satisfied that the peace plan is holding, that a ceasefire is
enduring and that it is safe to put the large number of troops that David Owen
and Professor Taylor have been talking about on the ground in a peacekeeping
role. Remember to put troops in there, they will be going in prepared and
equipped for a peace supervision role not for a combat role and I don't think
we could put large numbers of troops in if there was any feeling that the peace
plan was going to fall apart or that the ceasefire was not going to endure. I
don't mean odd little sporadic outbursts, they're inevitable I think in the
circumstances but we've got to be satisfied that the war is over before we can
move to that face and the peace plan envisages that, as David Owen was saying
by giving a forty five day period.
DIMBLEBY: Well having heard David Owen being very
bullish, certainly by his own standards, knowing what he's experienced over the
last eight months. Do you incline to confidence that this really might be the
end of the matter?
CUNNINGHAM: Yes, I very much hope so. David Owen is
entitled to be bullish because he has spent months trying to give people the
confidence to do what they have done. To come an agreement with each other and
he has succeeded and he deserves the applause of the international community
for that and obviously he wants to minimise the threat of conflict breaking out
again or of some of the politicians behind the leaders who've signed the peace
plan, destablising their leadership either for their own ends or because they
feel that threats of military action still exist. So I understand his position
very well but he knows, I think, and indeed he acknowledged that it was a
combination of factors, the blockade - the threatened blockade of Serbia, the
threat of military action from the Security Council which has finally brought
people to their senses. I just think those threats should not as of now be
removed.
DIMBLEBY: Jack Cunningham, thank you very much.
...oooOooo...
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