................................................................................
ON THE RECORD
NIELS HELVEG PETERSEN INTERVIEW
RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION BBC-1 DATE: 20.3.94
................................................................................
JOHN HUMPHRYS: Well on Tuesday Mr. Hurd goes to
Brussels to try to settle his differences with the Council of Ministers. At
the moment, he doesn't have a single supporter for the option he prefers
-leaving the voting system as it is. But is there room for compromise? Well,
the Foreign Minister of Denmark, Niels Helveg Petersen, will be at that
negotiating table. He joins me now from Copenhagen.
Mr. Helveg Petersen, Denmark took a
fairly sceptical view over Maastricht in order to protect its own sovereignty.
Don't you, therefore, have some sympathy for the British view?
NIELS HELVEG PETERSEN: Well, I have a lot of sympathy for the
United Kingdom, for Great Britain. We have in many issues been in agreement,
but on this issue I think there are very solid reasons why the predominant view
inside the European Union - that is the view of ten out of twelve countries -
is the correct one. And I would mention at least three major reasons why it is
so.
First of all, it is the historical
precedent. When Denmark, the United Kingdom and Ireland joined we readjusted
the level for qualified majority accordingly. That was done at the timeof our
entry. It was done again with the entry of Greece, again with the entry of
Spain and Portugal - all the time it's been the community rule that round
seventy per cent of the vote constituted a qualified majority - that is, thirty
per cent would be a block... and the minority.
HUMPHRYS: And the other two reasons:
HELVEG PETERSEN: That is the over-riding interest of my
country and I think indeed also of United Kingdom. That is, that the Nordic
countries and Austria now could become members. We should not delay that and
it will be delayed if we do not agree on another figure than twenty-three.
And thirdly, what is really at stake
here also for the United Kingdom, for Denmark, for others, is that the
Government conference in '96 which is going to set the rules for the Community
of the future. That is an enlarged Community taking these decision, including
the Scandinavian countries and Austria. I think that is deeply also in the
interests of Britain.
HUMPHRYS: Isn't the reality though that when you
sit at that table in Brussels on Tuesday with Douglas Hurd and all the rest of
you, you're going to have a lot of talking, a lot of negotiating, and you're
going to emerge - perhaps a little bit bleary-eyed - on Wednesday morning, the
early hours of Wednesday morning with a compromise, with a fudge. Isn't that
the reality?
HELVEG PETERSEN: Oh, I hope so. I certainly hope so.I
think all parties to the debate now have made their points. I've certainly
made mine, others have done so as well, and now is the time to find solutions
and we should do that on Tuesday.
HUMPHRYS: I was going to say - you say "find
solutions". Do you mean by that find a compromise? Are you in the first place
prepared to shift on the matter of twenty-three and twenty-seven?
HELVEG PETERSEN: I think it will.. it's.. only realistic
view is to say twenty-three, that can never become an agreed position in the
Council.
HUMPHRYS: Never under any circumstances?
HELVEG PETERSEN: This is out. Finally.
HUMPHRYS: Completely out. Never under any
circumstances.
HELVEG PETERSEN: Oh no, I don't think so. That will
never be a position that could create a common position. Therefore, we'll have
to be looking for something else. I think Britain should be very clear on this
- there will never be agreement on twenty-three. We'll have to look for
something else. I think there's a lot of good sense in the proposition that
has been put forward saying it's twenty-seven, Yes. But if a majority of
twenty-three or more are opposed, we take a period of re-thinking in good
faith, trying then to establish a formula that could be a consent of
formal.....
HUMPHRYS: So that are you saying here? I'm not
quite sure about what you're saying - whether you're saying we can put off the
decision, the entire decision, or whether...
HELVEG PETERSEN: No, no. I was talking about a
compromise, saying well it's twenty-seven, that's a blocking minority, but if
there is in any voting in Council twenty-three or more, but not twenty-seven,
that would create a special situation up to the moment when we have the
government Conference in '96.
HUMPHRYS: Right. So you're talking about some
sort of cooling-off period?
HELVEG PETERSEN: Yes.
HUMPHRYS: For how long?
HELVEG PETERSEN: Of re-thinking? One month, it could be
twice one month, that's not so important. One could look for solutions along
these lines and I think that should be acceptable to everyone, and such a
cooling-off period, or think again period I would prefer to call it,
is absolutely very valuable. It is true, that gives a chance for the national
Parliaments and national public opinion to make itself felt in the debate.
HUMPHRYS: There's no way, is there, in which you
can separate, de-couple, these two issues - that's to say the acceptance of the
four new members and the question of qualified majority voting. That's... so
you say Ok, we'll have the four in and then we'll decide. We'll sort it out
after that?
HELVEG PETERSEN: No, no. That's not possible for very
good legal reasons. After all what we have to sign with the four applicant
countries is a new Treaty and the Treaty, or an adoption of the Treaty, so
there will have to be a text in the agreement also covering this problem.
HUMPHRYS: Let me remind you of what you did I
think say earlier this week. "The British position," I quote, "is absolutely
untenable. This cannot be solved by another meeting. The Brits should call us
when they have reconsidered." Is that still your position?
HELVEG PETERSEN: It is my position, as I said just a
moment ago, everybody, including myself, we have made our positions clear. We
shall now seek solutions to it on Tuesday and come up with the result.
HUMPHRYS: Right. And so if Mr. Hurd is not
prepared to accept the compromise that you seem now to be suggesting - no deal.
HELVEG PETERSEN: Well, in that case, there's no
enlargement and that is I think deeply regrettable. It is not possible to have
twenty-three and enlargement. That is very clear now.
HUMPHRYS: Mr. Helveg Petersen, thank you very much
indeed.
...oooOooo...
|