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                                 ON THE RECORD 
                      
 
RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION BBC-1                                 DATE:  25.2.96
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JOHN HUMPHRYS:                        But first the Scott Inquiry.  In a 
moment I'll be talking to Menzies Campbell of the Liberal Democrats about the 
implications of the big debate in the Commons tomorrow.  There's every 
possibility that the Government will be defeated in the vote that follows.  
That's not necessarily life-threatening.  
 
                                       If it does happen, there'll be a vote of 
confidence and there's little danger they'd lose THAT.  Even so, it DOES matter 
because Mr Major has staked his authority on it and the careers of two senior 
Ministers may depend on it.   
 
                                       As we've heard in the news, it's not 
clear how many Tories intend to vote against the Government, but what IS clear 
is that the way the Ulster Unionists vote will be critical.  The Reverend  
Martin Smyth is their Chief Whip. 
 
                                       Good morning, to you, Mr Smyth.  
 
REV MARTIN SMYTH MP:                   Good morning.  
 
HUMPHRYS:                              Have you decided yet? 
               
SMYTH:                                 No, we will be doing our final decision 
tomorrow tonight after we hear the actual Opening Speeches and get the mood.  
We're not unduly het up about the thing because, on the one hand, people in 
Northern Ireland have been used to officials and Governments actually using 
language in a duplicitous way.  And, the thing that puzzles me is why these 
Conservative Members did not speak up in the past when it was obvious that 
Ministers were misleading the House on Northern Ireland.  Sauce for the goose 
and sauce for the gander.   
 
                                       On the other hand, we've had Ted Heath 
in the past misleading the House and the nation on Europe and even Harold 
McCuskar (phon) was aware that while we were supporing the Labour Party, they 
were promising one thing and misleading us, for example, the gas pipeline 
(sic).
 
HUMPHRYS:                              You wouldn't be suggesting that two 
wrongs make a right, would you?   
 
SMYTH:                                 No, what I'm saying is we're not as 
panic stricken as some as those who want, on the one hand, to vote, for 
example, against the Government for an issue tomorrow and then the next day 
rush in to vote a Confidence measure supporting them.   
 
HUMPHRYS:                              Might it be, then, that your vote will 
depend not entirely on the Scott Debate but that you might be influenced by the 
Government's policies on Northern Ireland? 
 
SMYTH:                                 We're actually concerned about the good 
of the nation.  That's been our position all through and we have never yet 
voted simply on Northern Ireland, except what's (sic) been to the detriment of 
Northern Ireland.  And, we've warned successive governments, who've constantly 
not listened to us because we're a small Party.  We have voted for the good of 
the nation constantly as well.  We'll be doing the same tomorrow, in my 
judgment.   
 
HUMPHRYS:                              So, Northern Ireland could play a part 
then in your final decision? 
                                                       
SMYTH:                                 Northern Ireland is part of the United 
Kingdom.  What is good for the United Kingdom can be good for Northern Ireland. 
  
HUMPHRYS:                              So, if you're not happy, as I understand 
it - and you're not - with what Mr Major's talking about, at the moment - the 
possibility of proximity talks which would involve Sinn Fein that might 
influence you? 
 
SMYTH:                                 Well, it would be much more important 
the next day, wouldn't it, on a Vote of Confidence - if that was to come up? 
 
HUMPHRYS:                              So, what's your message to Mr Major, in 
that event?   
 
SMYTH:                                 Our message to Mr Major is as it has 
been to successive people that we should be treated equitably and fairly as 
part of the United Kingdom and it's near time that we're not dancing to the 
terrorist tune.  If one goes back, for example, to the reaction of the bombing 
at Aldwych, where we had the media telling us that we had this young man had 
been recruited in London - and, I've heard it even reported again today - 
whereas, obviously, he was recruited in Gorey, where he sold Republican papers. 
 
HUMPHRYS:                              So, from what you're saying it's clear 
that Mr Major can't rely on your support.  Is that so? 
 
SMYTH:                                 I would say that no one can rely on our 
support willy-nilly.  We will take our decision as a Party for the good of the 
country and Northern Ireland as part of that country.  
 
HUMPHRYS:                              Mr Smyth, thank you very much, indeed, 
for joining us.   
 
SMYTH:                                 Thank you. 
 
  
 
 
 
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